Olympics 2024

alfadriver said:

In reply to DrBoost :

So one participant defines the entire sport?  Makes no sense at all. Kind of a waste of your time to even look into it, imho.  

I never said that. I said it's an art form, not a sport. 
how can you judge an art?  Think of this like an abstract painting. You can't judge that because there are no rules. Same with breaking. There are no rules. They are expressing themselves. Can't judge that. Raygun exemplifies what I'm saying. She expressed herself and embarrassed her country. How? If she expressed herself perfectly, she should have got a perfect score. But in that case, everyone expressed themselves perfectly, and they all get a perfect score. 
it's not a sport. What do you measure and score?

Mr_Asa said:

If ya cant say anything nice...

If your directing that at me, I didn't say anything not nice. It's art, not sport. 

DrBoost said:

alfadriver said:

In reply to DrBoost :

So one participant defines the entire sport?  Makes no sense at all. Kind of a waste of your time to even look into it, imho.  

I never said that. I said it's an art form, not a sport. 
how can you judge an art?  Think of this like an abstract painting. You can't judge that because there are no rules. Same with breaking. There are no rules. They are expressing themselves. Can't judge that. Raygun exemplifies what I'm saying. She expressed herself and embarrassed her country. How? If she expressed herself perfectly, she should have got a perfect score. But in that case, everyone expressed themselves perfectly, and they all get a perfect score. 
it's not a sport. What do you measure and score?

Figure skating.

Drifting.

Gymnastic floor exercises.

Streetwiseguy said:

DrBoost said:

alfadriver said:

In reply to DrBoost :

So one participant defines the entire sport?  Makes no sense at all. Kind of a waste of your time to even look into it, imho.  

I never said that. I said it's an art form, not a sport. 
how can you judge an art?  Think of this like an abstract painting. You can't judge that because there are no rules. Same with breaking. There are no rules. They are expressing themselves. Can't judge that. Raygun exemplifies what I'm saying. She expressed herself and embarrassed her country. How? If she expressed herself perfectly, she should have got a perfect score. But in that case, everyone expressed themselves perfectly, and they all get a perfect score. 
it's not a sport. What do you measure and score?

Figure skating.

Drifting.

Gymnastic floor exercises.

I agree on all accounts. 
hence my very first statement about not being interested in the Olympics. 

In reply to DrBoost :

Except the breaking community calls it a sport. They have had competitions all over the world for many years. Meaning they have come up with a method to judge the sport that they all agree to. 
 

The Olympics didn't invent this competition any more than they did for hockey. 
 

You can call it what you want, they call it a sport, given the athletic ability it takes to express themselves. 
 

But to them extrapolate that to every other sport?  T&F is invalid because of breaking?  There are enough events that you can ignore whatever you don't like. Looking at the emotions of the golfing and tennis winners- they really take this seriously, being one of the most important things they will accomplish. 

Crap on it all you want, that's your option. I'll take my cues from the participants. 

My argument about breaking as a sport vs. breaking as an art- Sports make me hurt and cry. Art just makes me cry. If I try and windmill, or even top rock in my living room right now, I'm going to be VERY thankful Seminole Cty trauma (complete with helicopter!) is within walking distance. Not that I can walk there if I try breaking.....

I also look at it like this. There's a move (who's name is eluding me... I'm not awake right now) that mens pommel horse has taken directly FROM breaking and made a staple in pommel. Its the one where they stand on their hands and swipe their legs around in circles without touching the ground. If it was BMX (or BMW as it keeps getting called) It'd be a whiplash. There's also the insane amount of strength required to do handstands, headspins, or any number of the other moves. That's atheticisim no matter who you are or where you're from . 

I know we keep coming back to Raygun and how much of an "embarassment" she was. That's where the hitch in my giddyup is. Was it a subjectively bad routine? Probably. Like any "sport" where different strategies are employed and subjective judging is a thing- if you go wildly off radar, you're likely to fail. When you've got 50 years of history (Hip hop is 50 now, yall) established, and there's a set of moves and a whole standard, and you've got a doctorate level nerd coming out of left field hitting the sprinkler at the olympics, that's gonna lift some wigs. HOWEVER- that's kind of the point. What everyone (and i'm not talking about here, i'm talking the internet at large. E36 M3's all over the place) seems to NOT understand is originality. They understand the 15 breaking moves they've seen on TV, the showy TikTok power moves, and that's it. Nothing about progression, athleticism, originality, and E36 M3, even getting up on a global stage and sending it. They talk about her outfit. J-Attack, the mens entry from AUS- was dressed identically. same goofy track suit. So.... that's out.

Athleticism? I dare anyone here to get down on the floor, right now, and hit a shrimp. bend at the waist, while lying on your side, and touch your toes while your knees are straight. then flip over and do it on the other side. Go. I sure as E36 M3 can't do that. There are elements of other moves in her routine I know roughly 95% of us couldn't hit without significant injury before, during, or after. 

Whether or not it should be included going forward is another matter that we could argue til this thread is locked and Margie pulls my address from the files, drives to my house, and buries me under my OWN patio (it's only about 45 min away, as it turns out. Pretty wild) Should we keep rhythmic gymnastics? Why is Squash coming back? Why are given sports included? Ice skating continues to be one of the most popular sports, period, and that's just dancing on knives. I wanna see Nadya and Boris hit a handspin on ice. 

In any event, I will continue to defend Breaking as an event, Raygun as an athlete, and the culture around it in general. Society today is too quick to dismiss something because they're not interested in it, and CERTAINLY because they're suddenly experts in it. People needa chill.

In reply to alfadriver :

I see your point about the participants have called it a sport for years.  I'll concede.  

I never condemned any sport, never mentioned track and field or anything else. I just don't see it as a sport. That's my opinion. I'm not interested in the olympics for reasons that predate breaking as a sport.

But I won't get roped into one of your arguments. You have a penchant for creating an argument when there was only a discussion. I'm going to watch Breakin', the 1984 movie.

In reply to Mndsm :

not directed at you...,  Here's the thing- if you don't find it a sport, just don't watch it. I didn't. But the breaking community thinks it's a competition- so why should I tell them they are wrong?  It doesn't make my life worse or T&F worse because it's there. 
 

As posted before, the only judges sport I watch is women's gymnastics just because Biles rips off things that seem super human. When you dominate competitions when you executions scores are in the 8's, something special is going on. But for the rest, it's mostly the same attempts at the same move. So I watch rowing, or biking, or team handball, or some other thing that is interesting. 
 

Life is too short to spend time on things that make you upset. 

DrBoost said:

I agree on all accounts. 
hence my very first statement about not being interested in the Olympics. 

I don't mean to be nasty, but there are 329 events in the Olympics. What percentage have esthetics as a criteria? It sounds like you just aren't into the Olympics (nothing wrong with that) and are looking for a justification. 

In reply to DrBoost :

Lol. Ok. 

In reply to Mndsm :

Are you talking about the Flare move on Pommel Horse?  It dates back to 1972.

https://gymnasticscoaching.com/2020/06/09/pommel-flare-history/

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

DrBoost said:

I agree on all accounts. 
hence my very first statement about not being interested in the Olympics. 

I don't mean to be nasty, but there are 329 events in the Olympics. What percentage have esthetics as a criteria? It sounds like you just aren't into the Olympics (nothing wrong with that) and are looking for a justification. Kinda like all the people who went batsh-t when they did the Last Supper in drag.   

Inspiration was likely The Feast of The Gods by Jan van Bijlert, and definitely not The Last Supper.

Dionysius wasnt at The Last Supper

racerfink said:

In reply to Mndsm :

Are you talking about the Flare move on Pommel Horse?  It dates back to 1972.

https://gymnasticscoaching.com/2020/06/09/pommel-flare-history/

Nah, different one. They keep their legs together. and spin em around like a lawnmower blade. 

In reply to Mr_Asa :

That seems to be the company line, but for a moment there it looked a lot more like The Last Supper. Perhaps it was both?

Mr_Asa said:

SV reX said:

Jordan Chiles has been stripped of her bronze medal. It has been re-awarded to the Romanian gymnast.
 

Apparently there is a 1 minute time limit for filing an appeal.  Chiles' appeal was 4 seconds over the time limit. 
 

What a clusterberkeley. For both gymnasts. The judges really screwed up. 

USAG is protesting this.  They have video evidence that there was intent to appeal at 47 seconds and aa followup at 55 seconds.

"USA Gymnastics was notified by the CaS for Sport on Monday thay their rules do not allow for an arbitral award to be reconsidered even when conclusive new evidence is presented."  USA Gymnastics said in a statement.

So Chiles will be forced to return the medal and USAG is gonna follow every avenue, including the Swiss Supreme Court, to get it back to her.

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Mr_Asa :

That seems to be the company line, but for a moment there it looked a lot more like The Last Supper. Perhaps it was both?

Art imitates art. If you look at the pieces side by side they're nearly identical. 

And that's all I'm going to say about that, out of respect for peoples beliefs, the rules around here, and just general decorum.

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Mr_Asa :

That seems to be the company line, but for a moment there it looked a lot more like The Last Supper. Perhaps it was both?

Sounds like what people actively trying to be offended would say.  "Its still there! Look! That half second pose!  They're mocking my beliefs!"

"Well what about the rest of the 10 minute display?"

"I dont care about the other 10 minutes, I care about that half second!"

Mr_Asa said:

Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Mr_Asa :

That seems to be the company line, but for a moment there it looked a lot more like The Last Supper. Perhaps it was both?

Sounds like what people actively trying to be offended would say.  "Its still there! Look! That half second pose!  They're mocking my beliefs!"

"Well what about the rest of the 10 minute display?"

"I dont care about the other 10 minutes, I care about that half second!"

Don't do it man.....

I know there are funnier meme's out there, but that performance was hilarious.

In reply to trigun7469 :

Which reminds us that sport is just entertainment for those not participating. 

i haven't been following all the pages of this thread, so I may be out in left field on the cricket pitch. 

I saw gymnastics and figure skating mentioned earlier in the discussion. The different there is that they have compulsory moves as well as different moves that are clearly defined so there is a standard to compare to in the judging.

I didn't get to watch much of the breaking, but if they have some common moves to judge execution objectively as well as the subjective artistic aspect of how they string those together in their routine and fill the gaps, I don't see why it couldn't be an Olympic sport. 

If it's head to head based on artistic merit, regardless of the difficulty of the moves, then it's subjective and art and not sport for competition purposes. 

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Except that people have the receipts...

Seems 'Barbara Butch', the self-proclaimed' Olympic Jesus', couldn't wait to tell the world how they pulled it off on Instagram, only to change it hours later.

...and in the interest of keeping this thread about the sports in the Olympics, that's the extent of what I'll say in this thread about this subject.

 

So Chiles will be forced to return the medal and USAG is gonna follow every avenue, including the Swiss Supreme Court, to get it back to her.

Lets make this simple , give both of them a medal ,  I am sure the Ladies would go for that....

Yeah I know thats too easy.....

In reply to californiamilleghia :

I have a better idea. Scenes from a hat. Get the two competitors back, pull a random event from a hat, winner takes all. Could be skeet shooting, could still be gymastics. Let's introduce a little chaos and see who the real athlete is. 

In reply to racerfink :

Do you know how easy it is to fake everything in that?
https://www.snopes.com/news/2024/07/30/olympics-last-supper/