Paging SVRex to the flooring phone (or anyone really)

For those of you who know me, you know I'm a chronic dreamer/overthinker, but every once in a while I come up with brilliant ideas that work.

For those of you who DON'T know me, read above.

My Maple hardwood flooring is coming along slowly.  The mill is a bit backed up but I'm not in any rush at all.  Because it is all milled and planed, it will likely need a good sanding, which means I'll probably install it, then sand it, then finish it.

The obvious answer here is Parks gloss poly.  I want these floors to be super light (color wise) so I'll have to test to see if I want water based or the oil if it doesn't make it too dark.  That's what I always used in the past.  Poly is pretty forgiving and it is somewhat self-healing if you get a scratch, but it is one of the more labor-intensive installations and one of the hardest to get just right. 

A friend suggested sprayed on lacquer before installing, but I figured it would be too easy to get too much on the tongue or groove and make installation a nightmare.  Also, lacquer gets big ugly white scratches that aren't easy to repair.

Is there something better?  I know I've butted heads here before about Shellac.  I'm not a fan but I'll set my prejudice aside.  Sell me on it.

What about a poured clear epoxy?  Probably just run to all the low points in my floor before it set, right?

What's the super hard stuff that they use on pre-finished floors?

I used this on my living room 2 years ago and I'm very happy. Just did the dining room the same. Oil stain under it. I didn't pay that much ( 65?).

Put the floor down, then sand it, then do as Rustybugkiller said.

It will last for years.

I believe most of the prefinished flooring sold nowadays is coated with polyurethane. I think they do like 10 thin coats, but that might have just been marketing drivel.

Trying to finish yourself before installing might create a nightmare when product gets in the areas it shouldn't and you can't get tight joints.  Thus I recommend installing the raw wood before applying finish.

As always, YMMV

Hi there!! 

In reply to Curtis73 :

Most finishes are versions of plastic. Plastic is a softer material and the really horrible part is how easily it's damaged plus how impossible it is to do an invisible repair. The normal procedure once the damage becomes too bad is is to sand all of it off and put a new replacement finish in place.  
 Shellac is so much harder plus it's extremely easy to spot repair invisibly. 
How hard is it?  The first floor I did was the bridge over my kitchen from the tower to the billiard room. I did that floor nearly 18 years ago . In the meantime  I tromped on that floor in my construction boots, stacked wood on it, tools, equipment.  Yes in some cases the underlying wood dented etc. but it really takes something to scratch it. Shellac is just that much harder than any Polyurethane  or other finish.  
I have had two Giant Dogs a St Bernard and a New  Fundland     Both 150 pound dogs who had boundless energy and loved Tromping  around  sending boards flying. 
It's dark now. So I can't go up and take a picture  but I will tomorrow, you judge how well it's held up.  
 I'll be honest and admit clear Shellac will at the least slightly yellow the wood. But that's after about 5 coats. 
Shellac is the only finish that's Doctors  recommended and approved. Well, ( grin) they prescribe pills and Shellac is the coating on them. 
The magic of shellac is new melts old.  If you have to repair an area you can use denatured alcohol to remove the old shellac,  repair the  damage, then Re-coat  the area feathering  over the old finish and it will result in an invisible blend, because new melts old. 

You have time to wipe up spilt water etc.  If  You leave it in place for too many hours shellac will turn white.  Leave it white for a day or so, it might recover. If not,  just use denatured alcohol to remove the old finish and apply a fresh finish. 
New melts right into old. Doesn't matter if it's been 5 days 5 weeks 5 years or 100 

     I'm the worlds worst painter.  I get more on me, my clothes, in my hair etc. then on what I'm trying to paint.  It all comes out in the wash.  literally.  Plus runs and streaks are a thing of the past with shellac.  I slop  it on with a big barn brush, no runs no streaks no errors. ( well,  I thin it out so much that it's all runs. But after a few coats they all melt together. A better painter wouldn't have to thin it so much and could still have the flawless finish I wind up with. 
 

One final point.  Don't bother cleaning your paint brush.  Let it dry! Mark it Shellac ,  it will dry rock hard

The next time you use the brush, set it in the mixed shellac for a while and a miracle  happens. The brush will be clean and straight, just as soft as it was new

Again it doesn't matter if it's 5 hours 5 months 5 years etc. 

 

I would definitely recommend sanding and finish in place. No one has the capacity in their home to apply finishes uniformly when the material is loose.  Plus, sanding in place removes the discrepancies board to board. (Most pre-finished stuff has a micro-bevel on each edge).
 

As for the product?  I'm really not a finishes guy, but there are a lot of reasons  poly is used so frequently...

Here's an excellent summary of the pros and cons of various products:

When you don’t know, ask Bob Vila!

SVreX said:

I would definitely recommend sanding and finish in place. No one has the capacity in their home to apply finishes uniformly when the material is loose.  Plus, sanding in place removes the discrepancies board to board. (Most pre-finished stuff has a micro-bevel on each edge).
 

As for the product?  I'm really not a finishes guy, but there are a lot of reasons  poly is used so frequently...

Yes, I specified a micro bevel.  The guy at the mill was itching to get new knives for his processor anyway.  I figured the bevel would help draw the eye away from any shrink/swell that might happen since these are 5" boards.

That Bob Villa article is great.  Lots of things to look into.

Frenchyd, I like everything about your shellac pitch, but having had shellac before, I don't like two things; even if you get bleached shellac, it's still a color choice (a little yellowish orange), and I don't like the fact that liquids can pretty easily stain it causing repairs.  I will look into it more, and probably get some to test it on a board .

In reply to Curtis73 :

Also, his recommendations about the hardness of shellac vs poly runs counter to all conventional wisdom. 

SVreX said:

Hi there!! 

In reply to Curtis73 :

Absolutely!!

As a confirmed loud mouth, you have no idea how hard it was for me to post ONLY that and leave it alone for 24 hrs!!  

...and before the rest of the smartasses chime in, yes I am very aware that it was not 24 hrs! 

SVreX said:

In reply to Curtis73 :

Also, his recommendations about the hardness of shellac vs poly runs counter to all conventional wisdom. 

Exactly. Shellac has many properties but hardness is not one of them. It's many times softer than polyurethane. 

Water is the reason I did not choose shellac. I am a buffoon and seem to always drop some liquid on my floors.

rustybugkiller said:

Water is the reason I did not choose shellac. I am a buffoon and seem to always drop some liquid on my floors.

I have beer clumsiness.  It's not that I'm drunk and drop my beer, I just can't seem to hold on to a beer can.  It's this weird thing.  I can't remember the last time I dropped a soda can or my cell phone.  Beer?  Once a month.

Water + alcohol + shellac = stains.

That water-cure urethane sure looks attractive, but not very DIY friendly.  I can stay at SWMBO's house while it cures, but I'm also a little afraid of the money it will cost.  This maple I'm putting down is Norway Maple, so it's the same stuff they use on bowling alleys.

But, of the DIY versions, either the oil or water poly is about the easiest DIY option, and it's what I'm used to.  I'm just not a fan of water based poly, and I'm not a fan of the amber tint of oil based.

In reply to Curtis73 :

Wipe off the shellac with denatured oil. Remove the stain. Re-shellac. Or just wipe up the beer before it goes through the shellac.  Beer is very low in alcohol content with a lot of water in it. It will take a long time especially if the Shellac is a year or two old. 
It takes about 4 hours for water to leave a white mark.  Alcohol will speed that up, maybe an hour or so?  Seems a reasonable amount of time to wipe a damp rag over the spill. 
My drink of choice is Amaretto on the rocks. It's a thick brown Liqueur and yes I've spilt on the floors.  There are times in the past decade &1/2 +  I was too busy to wipe it up immediately. I don't have any stains.  
My second preference is wines, yes I spill occasionally ( who's perfect? )  no wine stains either. 
Beer does get splashed around when the family comes over on the 4th of July  Since the kids do a lot of swimming there are always damp towels to kick over the spill  and apparently that's enough. No stains  That's on Maple too. 
 

In reply to rustybugkiller :

If you wipe up the water in a few hours, things are fine. If you leave it overnight  and get the white mark of a water stain. 
You have a chance, just leave it and with enough  dry heat and sun lite  white slowly disappears--- sometimes 

if not? Take a rag and get it damp with denatured alcohol.  Rub it until the white disappears then Re-shellac . New melts old shellac and leaves an invisible repair. 
 

In reply to dculberson :

How do I prove you wrong?  Shoot,  I forgot to take a picture of the floor of my Bridge today.  I'll try to remember tomorrow. 
150 pound dogs with unclipped toe nails,  years of construction boots, equipments, boards,  abusing that floor.  The shellac is fine. Yes the wood has dents, marks but the shellac is fine. 

SVreX said:

I would definitely recommend sanding and finish in place. No one has the capacity in their home to apply finishes uniformly when the material is loose.  Plus, sanding in place removes the discrepancies board to board. (Most pre-finished stuff has a micro-bevel on each edge).
 

As for the product?  I'm really not a finishes guy, but there are a lot of reasons  poly is used so frequently...

Yes You are correct,  most use Polly.   There is a lot of money spent advertising the latest poly floor finish. Plus using poly makes sure the whole floor has to be sanded off. That's job security.  You can't spot patch poly without it showing like you can shellac. 
Nobody advertises Shellac and in the small cans most people buy shellac it's expensive.  It's not a bunch of chemicals mixed together.
 

Somebody goes out in India and cuts branches the Lac bug has been deficating  on ( yeh, bug  poop)  scrapes it off.  Alcohol is added. And you have shellac. it's been used for thousands of years. 

In reply to Curtis73 :

Please use whatever pleases you. While I'm a strong advocate for shellac. Some of that is because I love the finer things in life. 
A Stradivarius violin is always refinished with shellac. Not polyurethane.
 

 I like the fact that bug poop breaths, flexes, and is extremely durable. 
The timbers in my house may have been growing before America declared its independence from King George. Some of my timbers came from a giant tree that was nearly all burl.  
Trying to paint them with any other finish my lack of Skill would make things a mess. 
But that's me. You use whatever you'd like. 

frenchyd said:

In reply to dculberson :

How do I prove you wrong?  
 

Well, you can't.  
 

I'm really glad the shellac has served you well, but on the actual rating of hardness, it's pretty much the worst finish available.

Here's a test showing the hardness ratings of various finishes.  Of the 19 different finishes tested for hardness, shellac tested dead last:

Hardness testing of finishes

Ill agree that shellac can serve well in many different situations, and that it has served well for a very long time.  But it's not a hard finish.