Panhandling, Philanthropy, Kickstarter and Car Projects - Rant Inside

4cylndrfury wrote: You able to do technical design work in the textiles industry?

After furiously googling to find out what that involves...probably not well since I don't know much about textiles

alfadriver wrote: If I were to kickstart a car program, I would require them to NOT put any stickers on the car that advertises someone who didn't pay (unless required by the sanctioning body), and also require that they do not paint the car in some kind of advertising livery- no matter how historic. I'm not going to pay for someone else's advertising.

That's how we roll all the time, other than a GRM sticker.

My wife and I commented several months ago as we were out for a drive on a Sat at how many groups were out on the street corner begging for money. Football teams, scout troops, School bands, etc... I remember hosting fundraisers while I was in band to raise the money we needed for the band to travel. Car Washes, Parking Cars at the Fair, Concessions at the Braves Games. I guess we just worked too hard!

4cylndrfury wrote: You able to do technical design work in the textiles industry?

No, but I have a Bachelors in Polymer & Textile Chemistry! Nice to see another textiles guy on the board, there aren't that many stateside any more.

4cylndrfury wrote: You able to do technical design work in the textiles industry?

Your only paying 40k for someone to do technical design work. And you expect them to have a 4 year engineering degree? No wonder you can't find someone.

^Where'd you see that number?

4cylndrfury wrote: You able to do technical design work in the textiles industry?

Nope, I was only referencing my specific skillset (AutoCAD, Tech Writing, Content Management and BOM management) in my area. Based on how I've done with other job changes, I could think I'd have no problem quickly picking it up (based on some quick googling).

However, I wouldn't be interested in moving to OH.

Let me work from home and come to the office every 3-4 weeks? I'd be all over that.

In reply to Z31

I assumed this was in reference to the same job.

4cylndrfury wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: 6 figures starting is nuts, but are they starting with minimum wage by any chance? They grew up their whole lives being told to go to college so they can get a good job and don't have to flip burgers for minimum wage. When they graduate with a E36 M3-ton of debt and end up using that expensive, hard-won education to earn burger-flipping pay, maybe you can see how massively demotivating and soul-crushing that could be. And then to add insult to injury, if they have trouble finding a job some ask why they're too good to flip burgers.

$40k? Definitely not min-wage. Apparently though, $40k isnt enough to command your best work. its enough to get you to show up and clock in, and not much else...

Maybe I should start a fund to pay my bills while I search for the perfect/ideal job..

If that is the case, then yes, wanting an Engineering student (even fresh out of school) for $40k/yr isn't going to happen. Around here interns make $20/hr so.

nocones wrote: In reply to Z31 I assumed this was in reference to the same job.

4cylndrfury wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: 6 figures starting is nuts, but are they starting with minimum wage by any chance? They grew up their whole lives being told to go to college so they can get a good job and don't have to flip burgers for minimum wage. When they graduate with a E36 M3-ton of debt and end up using that expensive, hard-won education to earn burger-flipping pay, maybe you can see how massively demotivating and soul-crushing that could be. And then to add insult to injury, if they have trouble finding a job some ask why they're too good to flip burgers.

$40k? Definitely not min-wage. Apparently though, $40k isnt enough to command your best work. its enough to get you to show up and clock in, and not much else...

4cylndrfury wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: 6 figures starting is nuts, but are they starting with minimum wage by any chance? They grew up their whole lives being told to go to college so they can get a good job and don't have to flip burgers for minimum wage. When they graduate with a E36 M3-ton of debt and end up using that expensive, hard-won education to earn burger-flipping pay, maybe you can see how massively demotivating and soul-crushing that could be. And then to add insult to injury, if they have trouble finding a job some ask why they're too good to flip burgers.

$40k? Definitely not min-wage. Apparently though, $40k isnt enough to command your best work. its enough to get you to show up and clock in, and not much else...

berkeley …. I would have LOVED to make that much … even after several yrs .. much less at start

woah...I think I may have misrepresented something here...We are not a manufacturer of textiles (as in a mill), we manufacture things from woven goods, we are in the furniture industry.

By technical design, I mean, able to design the patterned cut fabric shapes in CAD. we then run the CAD designs through some specialized software that creates a cut file that will run the cutter head in our CNC cutting machines. These cut pieces are assembled, with other components, to create furniture pieces.

We currently need a few people with basically an education in fashion (able to measure and design the cut fabric patterns so that finished, assembled pieces fit specific frames and other fixtures). These candidates need to understand the physical properties of fabrics (how to account for stretch, bunch, stability etc) and how they react to each mfg step int eh process. Typically, these candidates are very artistic people, often looking to go into fashion. Few of these people are interested in furniture. Its not a glamorous job, like designing textiles for the runway, but $40k a year I think is a decent salary for an educated person getting started in their career.

We also need a few people looking for entry positions in our Customer Service group - they would need a strong handle of MS Office applications, and be ok with Maybe $30-$35k a year. The focus is on MS knowledge, and CSRT skills are a bonus (need people to do data entry and clerical work).

Im not in a hiring/decision making capacity in either of these groups though...

nocones wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote: You able to do technical design work in the textiles industry?

Your only paying 40k for someone to do technical design work. And you expect them to have a 4 year engineering degree? No wonder you can't find someone.

Not specifically that, but yeah, Id think $40k to get your foot in the door, at growing company, that is on track to double its business in the next 5 years (lots of potential here), with a 4 year degree, is not unreasonable. Maybe $45k? Thats a decent just-out-of-college wage IMHO.

I started ~10 years ago at one of the top 5 contract furniture manufacturers doing CAD design. Fresh out of school our starting pay was >25% higher than what you are offering. This was in an area with a lower COL index than Cincinnati. Manufacturing engineers (which it sounds more like what you are looking for) made a little less. Our industrial designers made more.

4cylndrfury wrote:

nocones wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote: You able to do technical design work in the textiles industry?

Your only paying 40k for someone to do technical design work. And you expect them to have a 4 year engineering degree? No wonder you can't find someone.

Not specifically that, but yeah, Id think $40k to get your foot in the door, at growing company, that is on track to double its business in the next 5 years (lots of potential here), with a 4 year degree, is not unreasonable. Maybe $45k? Thats a decent just-out-of-college wage IMHO.

As I mentioned, it depends. Someone with a Fashion Design degree straight out of school? Sure.

Someone with an Engineering degree, 2yr degree with experience and CAD experience, or someone like me who has an unrelated degree to design, but has nearly 7 years of experience working with CAD/specs/etc........not so much.

You'd need to add 75% to that $40k number and let me work from home in a different state. Maybe come to office once a month for a week.

Like I said, Im not the one doing the hiring. But you dont need to be an engineer. Like i said, I may have given the wrong impression. These are 2d shapes, rarely with curves. The cad work isnt particularly tough. Its more your knowledge about how to measure a finished shape and figure out how to get there with flat panels that will be assembled. We can show you how to take your knowledge, and make the shapes in CAD. These are not MFG engineers, they are designers, developers. They come up with the basic design. Our production team engineers the MFG process.

Lets say we made it $50, would that be sufficient? What is sufficient? Personally, I know that if I were a rugrat right out of the brain mill, Id be happy with $45. We had people telling us that $90 would be a better wage when they declined our offer. WTF? Our directors probably dont make that.

93EXCivic wrote:

Apexcarver wrote: Not just cars, saw someone I knew basically asking for money to help open a coffe shop yesterday. Really kind of pisses me off, give me money so I can start a for-profit business? No, if I am investing I not only expect my money back, but something for my trouble.

Why does that piss you off? I helped Kickstart a watch company (Melbourne Watch Company). I am getting something back though for helping.

The getting something back thing. Nothing given back and asking for donations over $1k. (that is the lowest level they are asking for) I'm sorry, if I am going to invest that much money in a coffee shop I expect to have something substantial to show for it. Does that make me a bad guy? I would only consider that amount of money as an investment, they are talking gift.

4cylndrfury wrote: Like I said, Im not the one doing the hiring. But you dont need to be an engineer. Like i said, I may have given the wrong impression. These are 2d shapes, rarely with curves. The cad work isnt particularly tough. Its more your knowledge about how to measure a finished shape and figure out how to get there with flat panels that will be assembled. We can show you how to take your knowledge, and make the shapes in CAD. These are not MFG engineers, they are designers, developers. They come up with the basic design. Our production team engineers the MFG process. Lets say we made it $50, would that be sufficient? What is sufficient? Personally, I know that if I were a rugrat right out of the brain mill, Id be happy with $45. We had people telling us that $90 would be a better wage when they declined our offer. WTF? Our directors probably dont make that.

Possibly, it really sounds like you guys are looking for a drafter who you can teach the fabric side too. So you're right, I think mine and a few others ideas were a bit off.

In that case, find an older person (without a degree) who's been doing it who isn't worth as much as the degree'd AND experienced person. You should be able to find that person for $50k or less.

In reply to 4cylndrfury:

A lot of the value of a job depends on location and cost of living.

But, based on the market reaction, it does appear that $40k is too little. Especially if respondants are telling you that $90k would be more appropriate. They value their work, apparently.

So i seem to remember a certain Targa Newfoundland entry...

wbjones wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: 6 figures starting is nuts, but are they starting with minimum wage by any chance? They grew up their whole lives being told to go to college so they can get a good job and don't have to flip burgers for minimum wage. When they graduate with a E36 M3-ton of debt and end up using that expensive, hard-won education to earn burger-flipping pay, maybe you can see how massively demotivating and soul-crushing that could be. And then to add insult to injury, if they have trouble finding a job some ask why they're too good to flip burgers.

$40k? Definitely not min-wage. Apparently though, $40k isnt enough to command your best work. its enough to get you to show up and clock in, and not much else...

berkeley …. I would have LOVED to make that much … even after several yrs .. much less at start

How long ago?

$40k a year when I started working would be good. That would be close to $80k today.

4cylndrfury wrote: Not specifically that, but yeah, Id think $40k to get your foot in the door, at growing company, that is on track to double its business in the next 5 years (lots of potential here), with a 4 year degree, is not unreasonable. Maybe $45k? Thats a decent just-out-of-college wage IMHO.

Decent out-of-college wage? Depends on the area of the country (Ohio is less expensive than, say, the DC Metro area) and the degree you're looking for.

All I'm going to say is that if you're looking for someone with a technical and/or engineering degree, your starting salary there is low--even for Ohio.

In reply to z31maniac:

I hate to say it, I'd rather look for a person with experience/good history/no degree than I would for a fresh out of college w/degree/no history/no experience.....You have a known and an unknown.

I have also never understood why a slip of paper means someone is more desirable than "X amount of time doing what the slip of paper claims someone can do"

yamaha wrote: In reply to z31maniac: I hate to say it, I'd rather look for a person with experience/good history/no degree than I would for a fresh out of college w/degree/no history/no experience.....You have a known and an unknown. I have also never understood why a slip of paper means someone is more desirable than "X amount of time doing what the slip of paper claims someone can do"

Moldable vs. old dog new tricks.

Apexcarver wrote:

93EXCivic wrote:

Apexcarver wrote: Not just cars, saw someone I knew basically asking for money to help open a coffe shop yesterday. Really kind of pisses me off, give me money so I can start a for-profit business? No, if I am investing I not only expect my money back, but something for my trouble.

Why does that piss you off? I helped Kickstart a watch company (Melbourne Watch Company). I am getting something back though for helping.

The getting something back thing. Nothing given back and asking for donations over $1k. (that is the lowest level they are asking for) I'm sorry, if I am going to invest that much money in a coffee shop I expect to have something substantial to show for it. Does that make me a bad guy? I would only consider that amount of money as an investment, they are talking gift.

Ok yeah that would bother me too.

Sky_Render wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote: Not specifically that, but yeah, Id think $40k to get your foot in the door, at growing company, that is on track to double its business in the next 5 years (lots of potential here), with a 4 year degree, is not unreasonable. Maybe $45k? Thats a decent just-out-of-college wage IMHO.

Decent out-of-college wage? Depends on the area of the country (Ohio is less expensive than, say, the DC Metro area) and the degree you're looking for. All I'm going to say is that if you're looking for someone with a technical and/or engineering degree, your starting salary there is low--even for Ohio.

I could see $40k-$45k if you have a degree as a CAD specialist (I have forgotten what the exact term for that degree is) but for an engineer, it ain't happening.