Paul Walker Dead.

plance1 wrote: I have to shake my head at a few of the comments on here that seem to be praising his movies, where he was a car guy, blah, blah, blah. His crappy movies put the car hobby back about 20 years, gave rise to a whole new generation of immature millennials who think cold air intakes and fart cans make their cars hot rods. Worse yet, his movies made everyone of these dumb a$$ punks with pink wheels and neon lights think that they were good drivers. I see the fast and the furious crowd everyday usually driving like, well, like someone thats about to hit a tree. My criticism is of his awful movies, not of the person himself, I'm sure he was a nice guy judging from his apparent sincere interest in charity work.

I'm not a F&F fan, frankly. Saw the first 2 (on video) and none of the others, and thought they were all pretty dumb and full of over-done cars. That said, I don't think it did anything to the car culture that's any different from any other mainstream "car movie" or car TV show that has come out over the years.

While F&F may have publicized the "import tuner" scene, it didn't create it, and it was already pretty big before the movie came out. And it was the natural follow-on to the previous scene that was popular with the younger crowd before it.....whether that be Kawasaki Ninjas or fox-body Mustangs with straightpipes. Young male drivers have been driving crazy on the roads for many many years in whatever was the hot "fast" vehicle at that time. youth and fast cars have and always will result in huge accidents and deaths, regardless of movies that may glorify the "scene."

Blaming F&F for "dumb import tuners" driving would be like crediting the Dukes of Hazzard for popularizing stage rally.

Not to jack my own thread here but isn't the Porsche GT kind of like the Gen 1 GSXR1000R? Everyone who even tries to drive it hard ends up crashing it sooner than later?

Maroon92 wrote:

mndsm wrote: What's even more baffling is- both of the people killed are quite skilled drivers. Paul Walker did most of his own stunt driving for the first few movies. Was also an avid racer.

I'm not saying that is what happened, but it's never wise to underestimate the skill needed to pilot a Carrera GT. It's a white knuckle experience, even at low speeds.

The CGT is pretty much the 930T of modern days. The PCA guys I know say they're very deserving of the "widow maker" moniker.

Flight service, the first gen gixxer was about half as bad as the first gen zx10. The latter was proof that what riders want and what they can handle are two completely different things.

plance1 wrote: I have to shake my head at a few of the comments on here that seem to be praising his movies, where he was a car guy, blah, blah, blah. His crappy movies put the car hobby back about 20 years, gave rise to a whole new generation of immature millennials who think cold air intakes and fart cans make their cars hot rods. Worse yet, his movies made everyone of these dumb a$$ punks with pink wheels and neon lights think that they were good drivers. I see the fast and the furious crowd everyday usually driving like, well, like someone thats about to hit a tree. My criticism is of his awful movies, not of the person himself, I'm sure he was a nice guy judging from his apparent sincere interest in charity work.

BullE36 M3 and you know it. The muscle guys wreck just as frequently and drive like jackasses just as much as anyone in the fast and the furious crowd. And everyone of them driving a piece of E36 M3 mustang/camaro/dodgetruck/ferdtruck/etc/etc/etc, thinks they are a drag racer/nascar/oval track genius. There was a whole set of movies "inspiring" bad choices before the F&F franchise ever started. Vanishing Point/The Italian Job/Day of Thunder/ad nauseam.

The F&F movies inspired a new generation of car people, I know, I'm one of them. It's what drove me to learn more about cars and modifications. Sure, I had a horrible taste in modifications when I started off, but who doesn't? When people do stupid E36 M3, you can't blame the movies: the jackasses know they're being jackasses. (We've all been there and done that, if you say you haven't we all know you're lying through your teeth)

I love the rose tinted goggles old timers put on, "well, back in my day...."

In reply to irish44j:

Exactly, didn't see this post before I composed my post.

Cars that are that fast get going really fast really really quickly. It doesn't take more than a few giggles and gearshifts to be well into triple digits. You don't have to be a ruthless idiot, just an excited driver.

And he was a "real" car guy so far as that goes/matters. Seemed like a genuine dude, I'm genuinely curious what they'll do with F&F7, they're in the middle of filming it ....

He participated in the Redline Time Attack series among other things.

http://youtu.be/6WC_GwDIgWg

http://youtu.be/rV2HYwm4m2o

In reply to MrJoshua:

Restraint is a skill many lack and even worse, think they have, that's why the fastest car I've ever owned is probably a tie between the 99 Prizm and a late 90s NA Pontiac Bonnevile. I know I'd probably get in trouble or kill myself after one too many lapses in judgement driving some tire shredding 300hp RWD car on a daily basis.

In reply to Kenny_McCormic:

With the right clutch, a 100 hp vehicle can be terribly fun.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to MrJoshua: Restraint is a skill many lack and even worse, think they have, that's why the fastest car I've ever owned is probably a tie between the 99 Prizm and a late 90s NA Pontiac Bonnevile. I know I'd probably get in trouble or kill myself after one too many lapses in judgement driving some tire shredding 300hp RWD car on a daily basis.

300hop isn't "tire shredding".. neither is 400hp... 500hp is getting there.

Depends. My old 9C1 put down about 200 to the wheels and would shred as long as you dared.

I gotta admit... reading about this last night had a sobering effect on my attitude towards this week's press car - 560hp 911 Turbo S. I don't tend to arse around in them anyway, but I'm being extra careful out there on the slick roads.

Lesley wrote: I gotta admit... reading about this last night had a sobering effect on my attitude towards this week's press car - 560hp 911 Turbo S. I don't tend to arse around in them anyway, but I'm being extra careful out there on the slick roads.

be safe

have fun

report back

I am, and I am. .

Best brakes... in the world!

danger to manifold.

Real guys, in real cars, doing what car guys do, it may not be recommended but any one of us in that car would have given it stick for a moment, it just went wrong.

Sad day.

While I'm certainly not condoning or defending the way they may or may not have been driving at the time, regardless of driver talent, but it's also too easy to pass judgement on their actions with hindsight being 20/20 and all. Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone...I guarantee 100% that each and every one of us has made more than our fair share of foolish decisions in our life that could just have easily have resulted in such tragic consequences had things happened even the slightest bit differently. We may have simply been more fortunate so far than they were, and it is still sad that they may have pushed their luck one too many times until it ran out.

I'll be the one who says "I can't believe an actual racer would exhibit judgement that poor". The lower ~my~ lap times get, the slower I am on the street. But that's just me, and I'm old.

RIP to the both of them.

Evo magazine tested a Carrera Gt with different tires than stock and they said it was transformed in terms of drivability and forgivingness.

motomoron wrote: I'll be the one who says "I can't believe an actual racer would exhibit judgement that poor". The lower ~my~ lap times get, the slower I am on the street. But that's just me, and I'm old. RIP to the both of them.

Plus one million. I have zero interest in probing limits on the street. But then I do hundreds of kms on track each year.

ZOO wrote:

motomoron wrote: I'll be the one who says "I can't believe an actual racer would exhibit judgement that poor". The lower ~my~ lap times get, the slower I am on the street. But that's just me, and I'm old. RIP to the both of them.

Plus one million. I have zero interest in probing limits on the street. But then I do hundreds of kms on track each year.

My former years of (legal) drag racing and auto-x got most of jackassery out of my system. I guess because I learned where my limits were and that's all I needed to know.

I'm definitely surprised that a pro driver slipped up like that. Those cars must be a HANDFUL.

motomoron wrote: I'll be the one who says "I can't believe an actual racer would exhibit judgement that poor". The lower ~my~ lap times get, the slower I am on the street. But that's just me, and I'm old. RIP to the both of them.

There are a few that have said that in this thread. I am one of them.

My boss (who races in BMWCCA) drives like a complete shiny happy person on the streets. Weaving in and out of traffic, going 30-40 mph over the speed limit, etc. Just no real care about how his driving is affecting/will affect other drivers. I tell him and others I work with he is the only racer I have seen drive the way he does on public streets. Just not something I expect from someone who road races. He is also a stance-tard so that may have something to do with it.

But his excuse is "I know how to drive fast... I race cars."

I E36 M3 you not.

motomoron wrote: I'll be the one who says "I can't believe an actual racer would exhibit judgement that poor". The lower ~my~ lap times get, the slower I am on the street. But that's just me, and I'm old. RIP to the both of them.

+1

Since everyone (except me, I had to click the link to the photo) knew who Paul Walker was... here is who the other guy was:

Roger Rodas: 2013 rookie in the PWC running his own team, driving #51 Boss 302. Before that he was a PCA club racer, highest previous rung was runner up in the Porsche Cup Challenge.

Director of some sort with Merill Lynch and car guy. Wife and 2 kids.

PWC Driver Bio page.

It sucks when you die doing something stupid in a car next to a guy famous for movies about doing stupid things with cars. It makes this sort of thing seem like it was an eventuality.

RIP.

Not a fan. In fact I had to go look up his name to see who he was. But it is always sad when some one passes.

Re super cars. I have driven more than my fair share and things can go wrong really fast. Those that are more towards the race car end of things tend to warn you that you are going fast. Noise, vibration etc.

Modern "super street cars" as I call them are the ones that are dangerous. You can be at 120 MPH in the time it takes a "normal car" to get to 60 and it feels like you are doing 60. You are lulled into a sense of security and you are processing things as if you are doing 60mph (because you feel like you are).

I could believe that they hit something in the street. If they were traveling in the triple digits but only looking "down track" as if they were doing 50MPH something would come into there "view" so fast that they would not have had time to react.

This is why (for me at least) driving a slow car fast is often much more fun (and more rewarding) than driving a fast car fast.

wearymicrobe wrote: allegedly another 911 Turbo following behind him hit the same thing in the street and crashed as well.

Anyone see anything more about this?

It does seem like he was a true car guy. Saw this posted on FB:

http://autofluence.com/features/monday-motivation/paul-walkers-life-of-cars/

Some nice cars and some not quite so mainstream.