In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Good points. For the record, I'm pretty supportive of much more drivers training before issuing licenses.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Good points. For the record, I'm pretty supportive of much more drivers training before issuing licenses.
Right, likewise, adding a super steep tax to ammo might deny low income personal defense folks the ability to defend themselves based on class. Or create a feeling of "guns are just for rich people", which as someone who is very class sensitive, I'm not sure I'd like.
It's why bans are more "fair" - nobody, nor rich or poor, can have an automatic weapon without a lot of Feds knowing about it. Welll, unless they've got a 3D printer.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to barefootskater (Shaun) :
The only thing scarier than a fundamentalist-patio whackjob with an arsenal is someone with Barney Fife grade firearms safety skills. (The reason he was only allowed to have one bullet, and had to keep it in his pocket)
There seems to be a lot of crossover.
The problem with mandatory training/etc is that it requires a registry, and that sort of thing is railed against hard, for a variety of reasons probably not fit for discussing, because it invariably gets ugly. In theory it's a good idea, but the secondary things needed for it to happen are not politically palatable.
Mind you, we don't even have mandatory driver training/testing aside from a pop quiz and see if you can park a car, in most states.
I wouldn't be offended by certification because it doesn't require a registry. I had to take a hunter's safety course before I could get a hunting license, but when I go to buy a license each year, it just pops up that "yup, he's in the system, go ahead and sell him one." It doesn't pull up a database with every thing about my hunter's safety course, who taught it, where it was, the date... I showed up, did the course, got a piece of paper with my hand-written name. There was no registry because it was 1985.
The way it worked in PA was, I took my hand written hunter's safety course completion certificate to the sporting goods store. I showed them the paper, after which they sold me a license. For the next several years, I could either take that certificate OR last year's license to prove I had taken the course. Now that things are more digital, I can put in my DL number. The ONLY thing that does is links to a 1 or a 0 because I used my DL to purchase one last year. It's one of those multi step obscure things. If I had one last year, it means I was able to prove purchase the year before, and before, all the way back to analog 1985. It doesn't pull up a database of my information. Just a 1 or a 0.
A firearm is a serious responsibility, and I'm a lot more afraid of a noob with a gun than I am a 16 year old with a fresh driver's license and a Corolla.
The secret there, I think, is to either not have a database, or have it heavily simplified and encrypted. You could keep it old-school. Give someone a physical card, or an ID number that is not connected to "john smith at this address, this age, this history". Instead, just have that ID number match up to a simple 1 or 0. 1 is green, 0 is red. Then there is no chance of identity theft or government tracking. When I get a background check right now, it doesn't list all of my gory details, it verifies my identity and gives a simple yes or no. If you commit a violent crime that would disqualify you from purchasing a gun, your 1 turns to a 0. Just like with my hunter's safety course. I can buy a license because I have bought one in the past, and the only way of my having a history of buying a license is because I could not have, had I not completed that course. It's not checking to see that I've taken the course, it's checking that I have bought a license before. There is zero record in PA, electronic or otherwise, that I took a hunter's safety course.
Ammo tax is a bad idea not only because of the elitism mentioned but because shooting is a skill that you need to hone.
I don't think having a bunch of people with guns that aren't well versed in them is the way to success
Also, I firmly believe that gun control is mission creep. It started, or at least was presented, as a way to make people safer and now it's fallen to taking away scary looking guns. It's stupid in everyway.
The biggest problem with guns is a lot of people have been raised in the wrong culture. They see a gun and think "VIOLENCE" and think the mere act of having a gun makes you a threat to anyone around them, possible an action star too.
I see a gun and think "tool", and having a gun is the act of having a very specific hammer.
The culture I live in is very very different. We can carry guns pretty much anywhere. I see people carrying guns literally every day, hell I carried a gun today. There is no gun violence at all, not "very little"..... none. The gun show in our town is in the middle school. Still, no gun violence.
I'm not saying it's the answer to every question but you have to think about it a little......lots and lots of guns, the ability to carry them everywhere, they are very easy to get and......no violence
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:Also, I firmly believe that gun control is mission creep. It started, or at least was presented, as a way to make people safer and now it's fallen to taking away scary looking guns. It's stupid in everyway.
The biggest problem with guns is a lot of people have been raised in the wrong culture. They see a gun and think "VIOLENCE" and think the mere act of having a gun makes you a threat to anyone around them, possible an action star too.
I see a gun and think "tool", and having a gun is the act of having a very specific hammer.
The culture I live in is very very different. We can carry guns pretty much anywhere. I see people carrying guns literally every day, hell I carried a gun today. There is no gun violence at all, not "very little"..... none. The gun show in our town is in the middle school. Still, no gun violence.
I'm not saying it's the answer to every question but you have to think about it a little......lots and lots of guns, the ability to carry them everywhere, they are very easy to get and......no violence
They are very easy to buy off the street in places with strict gun control. I grew up in a housing development in a fairly strict state and atleast half the dealers were already felons carrying guns. All this tax on ammo will do is make a lot of money for guys willing to reload and sell on the black market.
Some of you have addressed the problems of taxing guns and/or ammo at high rates and resulting elitism & unavailabilty to the hoi polloi.
Many of the pistol permit, carry permit, etc. laws are from the Jim Crow era.
M2Pilot said:Some of you have addressed the problems of taxing guns and/or ammo at high rates and resulting elitism & unavailabilty to the hoi polloi.
Many of the pistol permit, carry permit, etc. laws are from the Jim Crow era.
Hell, the term "Grandfather clause" is a Jim Crow era term. If your grandfather could legally vote, you were fine to vote. If not, you had to pass an impossible "literacy test" before you could vote.
Reloading is also pretty much the same as building a race car vs driving a Camry.
It's done by enthusiast, not necessarily to stockpile ammo , but it is nice to have. I personally reload to find the optimum load for my gun. It's a challenge
In reply to dropstep :
Not as easy as being able to legally buy them though.
No waiting period here either
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