Chris_V wrote: Old man's car? Well, yeah, the 740iL is my gentleman's hot rod.
I know a guy who had a 740i Sport with a transplanted six speed manual transmission, that was a sweet car.
Chris_V wrote: Old man's car? Well, yeah, the 740iL is my gentleman's hot rod.
I know a guy who had a 740i Sport with a transplanted six speed manual transmission, that was a sweet car.
When I was 13 or 14 years old I drove my uncles truck on the farm. It had a 3 speed column shift manual. It baffled alot of my city slicker friends
WilD wrote: While I agree that backing a powerful V8 with an automatic often ends in acceptable results, and it is preferable for some applications, I still prefer a manual in cars I buy. That's just personal preference. If I spent more time stuck in gridlock traffice, or did a lot of drag racing, I'd look for an auto, but otherwise I like rowwing gears. (The automatic in a truck at the boat launch is a very compelling argument as well.) Once again, that's just my preference, but it does greatly affect cars I consider buying.
Which is sad, because it eliminates a lot of great cars.
I hate being self limiting.
stuart in mn wrote:Chris_V wrote: Old man's car? Well, yeah, the 740iL is my gentleman's hot rod.I know a guy who had a 740i Sport with a transplanted six speed manual transmission, that was a sweet car.
my buddy Simeon has a 740iL with the 6 speed conversion. AND a massively internally modded engine with supercharger... Supposedly about 600 WHP it's been over 180 mph on the Autobahn.
And yes, the 'Ring sticker was bought at the ring, when the car went around it.
A little video when our friend Edwin picked the car up in Germany after being there for a number of years at the shop that built the engine (and where they stuck on crappy stickers and lost two of his Fikse wheels)
Chris_V wrote: But I've got enough experience to know that there are no blanket statements of what is or isn't fun when it comes to cars and transmissions. Every combination is unique. And if I can pass on that knowledge to a young enthusiast so they don't become a closed minded fanatic, then I've done my job.
Every time someone gets into debate about how automatics suck you whip out pictures of that rx7. I really love the color combo. I've been on the board long enough to see it used 5-8 times..
Keep on keepin on man...
RossD wrote: My boss will shift from first to second gear before his entire Escape is across the cross walk after a stop sign. He also merges onto the highway at 35 mpg....
That's how I drive the RX-7, actually. 1st is just to nudge the car moving before shifting into Second. Third happens before the street is fully crossed.
Hell, in my other car, I'm in 2nd gear before I actually start moving 
VWAG 016 with more than a moonshot's worth of wear on the synchronizers, the 1-2 shift is impossible most of the time.
Chris_V wrote: Poppycock, I say. If I was so closed minded as to require a manual trans in everything, I'd never know the goodness of my 7 series, or a whole slew of big block musclecars. And there were good reasons to use a built AOD behind the 302 in my V8 RX7 autocross car.
I hold the apparently bizarre notion that, if an engine is over three liters or turbocharged, a manual trans is more of a liability than an asset. You end up spending more time shifting than you do accelerating, unless you shift like you want to spit the synchronizers out of the vent tube.
At a recent Audi club gathering, standing around a twin-turbo S4 and generally gawking, I opined that the S4 is nice but I think I'd rather have a Passat W8 - same chassis, same brakes, slightly more power than a stock S4, about as nightmarish reliability-wise, a LOT cheaper on the used market, and they're all automatic. His response was "Well, I don't get stuck in traffic much so the manual trans doesn't bother me."
No. Not what I meant at all. With an automatic you never have to lift off the throttle when accelerating. That's why H-gate-and-clutch manual transmissions are being discarded in favor of DSG, which is just a non-planetary automatic.
Both of my cars have manual transmissions, but I'd love to have automatics in both. Sadly, the only options (for both) are crappy and crappier.
And with that statement, Ronnie Sox will haunt you for eternity.
I drove a '70 Road Runner with a 440/833 today.
Ronnie Sox can keep his four-speeds Slip clutch a lot to get moving (highway gears) and it's not QUITE as bad as the 396/M21 Chevelle I sampled, but JEEZ. If you don't shift like a spastic chimpanzee, the engine slows down faster than you can wrestle it into gear and you look like a retard. (The M21... ever chirp the tires from engine braking on a poorly rev matched UPshift?)
It's not so much a problem if you wind the engine out, which is fine, but first gear is probably good to about 50mph so there's really no "winding out" involved. Especially with a 440.
The hardest part about the automatic cars is picking the right torque converter. When that's settled, they're a dream to drive.
Also, turbo cars love automatics, as you don't lift throttle while shifting, so they continue to make power through the shift.
In reply to Knurled:
Moonshot...about 240k miles? Love it!
Joey
240k was over a timing belt ago.
I need a few of you manual-lovers to buy my '95 C1500, with a 350 and a 5-speed. Sure, it's rusty and has 194k miles, but it has a 5-speed! $5000 cash gets it.
For my daily driver, I never want a conventional manual transmission ever again. It's too hard to talk on my cell phone, steer around the corner, hold my drink and shift gears all at once.
I did have one girlfriend who drove a manual... she was DAMN good at it too.
An ex of mine could also handle a stick quite well... oh wait, different topic 
I've never understood this whole "not knowing how to drive a manual" thing. Uh, you just drive. You push your foot in, and move your hand. It ain't rocket surgery people!
Chris_V wrote: Also, turbo cars love automatics, as you don't lift throttle while shifting, so they continue to make power through the shift.
My Uncle, and fellow gearhead, recently bought a 300ZX. Twin-turbo, non-targa, two seater, (lightest model they made), JDM-imported automatic.
He called me up within a couple of hours of owning it to say, "I've done the wrong thing and bought an auto, but you have to drive this car." (This from a guy who restored two 240Zs, and drives stick-shift daily.)
Anyway, the car is silly-quick, and still an absolute blast to drive. Really the auto has just turned it from 'sports car' to 'grand tourer'.
Knurled wrote: At a recent Audi club gathering, standing around a twin-turbo S4 and generally gawking, I opined that the S4 is nice but I think I'd rather have a Passat W8 - same chassis, same brakes, slightly more power than a stock S4, about as nightmarish reliability-wise, a LOT cheaper on the used market, and they're all automatic. His response was "Well, I don't get stuck in traffic much so the manual trans doesn't bother me.
I think you're mistaken, I've seen several factory manual W8 cars around the internets.
http://hooniverse.com/blog/2009/10/14/w8-awd-manual-transmission-passat-wagon/
I never understood the whole "you need an auto for traffic" thing. Not only do i often drive in DC, Baltimore, Philly, NYC, and Boston in my 5 speed Ti and Saab.. but I used to do it in a six speed 32,000 pound diesel box truck with a 2 speed differential. THAT was a lot was lot of shifting.
The good news was.. 1st gear on the low side of the diff, you could let off of the clutch and just inch along in traffic.
That's where my dual-range Subaru shined. Throw it in low range and creep along.
That's the thing that really bugs me about automatics, constantly shifting from neutral to drive when in traffic. I hate sitting at lights in gear, IMO that is the largest contributor to brake pulsation problems. Plus, it's annoying to have to constantly hold brake pressure to keep the thing still. It wouldn't be so bad if electronic transmissions actually bothered to shift when you asked them to...
And then, in stop and gop traffic going up the long hill southbound I5 out of Seattle/Tuckwilla, I completely burned the clutch out on my 911. It took an hour to go 5 miles. Uphill. First gear, clutch out, clutch in, clutch out, clutch in, neutral, clutch out, clutch in, 1st gear, clutch out 2 mph, cluthc in coat to stop, clutch out up to 5 mph, clutch in, coast to stop, clutch out up to 15 mph, clutch in 2nd gear, cluch out, up to 20 mph for a brief second, on the brakes, clutch in come to stop, first gear, clutch out, 5 mph, clutch in, etc for an hour.
Now, try that same commute more than once.
And no, on a commute like that you don't just let the clutch out at 2 mph and cruise, letting the person ahead of you get a ways ahead then catch up then get ahead while you don't change speed. You do that and that spot ahead of you gets filled by someone from the next lane the moment there's barely enough room for another car to fit and you're on the brakes again anyhow.
Simply put, a manual IS NOT FUN in any commute of any sort that its like that, and it's more of a PITA. And brake pads are vastly cheaper than clutch disks, and much less of a PITA to replace.
I've commuted in both. I have ZERO loss of fun commuting in my BMW vs any of the manual trans cars I commuted in, but have a bit less stress, and a lot more comfort. Even now where I don't have a commute like that.
I seriously think that people that question an automatic on a commute or brag about how little it affects them are just trying to justify more aggravation in order to look superior.
I'm also amazed at people that wil look at a car as a starting point, knowing that they can/will modify the engine for more perrformance, the brakes for more stopping power, the suspension for more gripo, the seats for more support, but by god, a transmission can only ever be the way the factory made it, and thus all automatics are identical whther they are tuned for luxury in an old cadillac, have a sport setting like in my BMW, or have modded valve bodies and torque converters and clutch packs like my RX7. Oh, and my RX7's automatic had zero electronics at all.
Knurled must live in Illinois on the flatlands. Where I'm at, you have to hold the brakes when at a stop light with a manual trans car because guess what, nothing is PERFECTLY flat, so the car will roll if you don't have the brakes on. So that little argument is null and void in most places I've driven on both coasts.
I love good manuals, prefer good manuals, and have owned and driven many, as I mentioned. But the reasoning being used against ALL automatics are borderline idiotic, especially from a group of supposedly knowledgeable car guys. 
I like automatics when I have to go somewhere.
I like manuals when I want to DRIVE.
Some interesting points of view in here, as always.
You guys need to drive a DSG car. Better than a manual when you want it to be, and a really good automatic in traffic and whatnot.
Sorry Chris, we didn't mean to question you. Of course you're right, you're right about everything, always. Please, Chris, don't smite us with your larger than average brain!
Meanwhile, I'll continue to drive what I like, how I like and ignore your opinion on the matter, but I appreciate you sharing it. Again.
How about we all just leave it like this:
People should learn to drive a manual, it is a skill that at the very least could be life saving and at the very least helps people understand what their vehicle is doing and what they are doing behind the wheel. The exception of course is for the disabled (but then I have no problem if they choose to try as there are many who choose not to use being "disabled" as a crutch to hold them back from experiencing life).
Whatever you choose to drive, for whatever reason, you need to be aware of the potential drawbacks for each choice. Weigh those drawbacks and choose what is right for you and your situation.
^ the end.
There's no shame in letting someone in front of you in traffic. I guess not letting people in is worth more than a clutch?
Clay wrote: 3. At Goodyear my team lead was a former test driver. He took me to lunch twice. Once in his Accord, next time in his Mustang GT. Both times he shifted at 5000 or higher every shift (just the way he drove). No big deal in the Accord, but I thought we were going to get arrested in the Mustang!
ROFL! I actually do that, too! Shifting at 5k in the Corrado is very different than shifting at 5k in the Golf....
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