Renovate not relocate: who has added onto their house and lived to tell the tale?

Let's get the GRM part out of the way: I have a detached three car garage with tons of storage. I'm not moving. I'm also the landlord for the two houses to my left, so I decide who is my neighbor. The neighbor on my right keeps to themselves.

My wife and I are looking to create more living space in our current house. It is a 2 bedroom/1.5 bath 1,200 square foot house built in 1954. It has a full basement, new HVAC, and a new roof. The driveway curves around behind the house, but the previous owner was smart: the last part of the driveway is actually a foundation pad (25' x 25'). They even had plans drawn up detailing the addition and how it would re-flow the rest of the house. I had those plans priced out and it is WAY out of our price range. Maybe it was more feasible back in the 70s.

What we need is four bedrooms and another full bath. Right now we are leaning towards moving all the living space to the basement (kitchen, living room, dining room) and convert the entire upstairs to bedrooms. We already use part of the basement for living (home school area, my office) so we like it down there. We already have a sink in the basement in the area where we could put a kitchen. The basement is unfinished, just concrete block and cement floor.

I'm thinking that I should apply the same cost calculator that I use for fixing old cars: estimate the cost of the job, then triple it (then cut yourself just to get that part out of the way).

I want to hear your stories of home renovation both good and bad.

My family has been in the residential home business since the early 90's.

We don't do reno's anymore. There is more value in building new. And reno's suck from a work perspective (you have to tear down before you even start, and there are lots of compromises when adding on around the original design).

The biggest issue is that you will be living there. That is by far the most stressful part. If the wife-unit will be hands on, it will be a lot easier, but going it alone, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

In short, berkeley renovations I'll never do another one, and I am only 26!

This thread is of much interest to me.

I’m contemplating adding 95 sq. ft. to my kitchen area. I’m currently at 2,098 sq. ft. and, as of today, the Zillows say my home is worth $774K (because Cal-le-forn-yah) so that’s $368.92 per sq. ft. So, assuming the cost per sq. ft. would be held constant, the addition would add $35,047 to the value to the home.

HiTempguy, would it be possible to give me a rough guess as how much it would cost to add 95 sq. ft. to my kitchen.

I've never added on to any or my houses. I have however added at least one garage to all of my houses.

Disclosure: My ex' is a licensed building mechanical engineer. I work as an building electrical designer. Her father is also a mechanical engineer who built his own house from the foundation up. Through work, she had access to essentially "free" architectural and civil engineering assistance with plans and structural analysis. Obviously, we did the MEP design ourselves. Her brother is also more than a little handy and a pragmatic problem-solver.

So with that out of the way, sort of... my ex- started a renovation/expansion of her house a few years ago. She wanted a master bedroom suite over the existing single-story kitchen/dining/living room space on the back half of her 2-story house. The result would be a nice suite upstairs with a master bath, walk-in closet, washer/dryer alcove, multiple closets and an central A/C utility room. I'll leave out a lot of mundane details that are specific to her house.

Because her house is in a historical area (built in 1890), she had to submit plans and send registered copies to her neighbors. Fortunately, people like what she has done with the house so far and as the building is already far from being original, her changes were accepted.

The plan was to have a contractor build the weather-proof shell: walls, siding, window installation, roof. All interior work - walls, MEP systems and finishing - not in scope.

We went to a local Home Show and talked to a few renovation contractors. She submitted and received bids from 3. Two bids were crazy - $70-80K. One bid was $40K. She went with the $40K bid. While it wasn't entirely without pain, that stage of the project went fairly quickly and was reasonably on budget (small extra for fancier roof shingles).

Some years later, she almost has a kitchen, dining and living rooms. The second floor has sheet-rock, a ceiling and most electrical work completed, but that's about it. She had budgeted around $60K to do the whole project. Obviously, that got blown out of the water (even with me buying a lot of materials and not getting reimbursed for some of it). Who knows when the A/C will get installed.

My take on the whole experience. It's like a project car only x10. It's hard to stay motivated sometimes. Working 8-10 hrs a day, driving 40 min to her house, working for 2-3 hrs (or more) and then driving 35 min home wore me down to the point that 2+ years after splitting up, I still haven't recovered. The resulting burn-out has affected my work, my cars and my own home needs and to no small amount, my physical health.

Yes, it will cost a LOT more than you think it will, and yes it will take much longer than you think it will. I won't say I won't take on such a project again, but I can say doing the work while trying to keep the house in living condition was very difficult at times.

It depends a lot on whether you're planning to do it yourself, hire a general contractor, or some combination of those methods.

In 2010 we added about a 220 sq ft laundry / mudroom to the back of our house, gut renovated and expanded adjacent kitchen, and replaced all the windows, siding, and related trim. Or, more accurately, we paid a GC to come do it for us. It cost about what we paid for the house in the mid-'90s (about $140,000 all in), but it was worth it to make sure it all got done. Of that, about $30,000 was in cabinets and appliances. We also had the 24x30 concrete driveway and front walk replaced in that, and some other miscellaneous stuff.

I am an architect, so I made fairly complete drawings of the project. It still took about 4-5 months till it was all done all the way. The GC was very good about leaving us some form of operating kitchen for all but a few days. It was still a little tough at times, but overall very worth it.

You have the advantage of having a functioning house upstairs. If you can live without the office space, you can do your work downstairs (or have it done) and then move down there and rough it for a few while the work upstairs takes place. The trick is all in how you strategically plan the phases, and you make sure that the builder is on board with that plan. It may mean some temporary construction that ends up getting removed from the final product. I'll be glad to offer advice if I can.

I added a dining room to one house, converted an attic room into a bedroon in the same place and finished an entire basement on another house (1,300 sq ft of basement two bedrooms, living room, kitchenette, and full bath).

Adding "empty" square footage (dining rooms and bedrooms) can be done pretty cheaply and easily. Adding kitchens and baths gets much more expensive much more quickly. You already have a functional house but want more rooms, why not simply finish out the basement?

Things to be aware of are the HVAC load. Finishing space that is already heated/cooled won't change things but tacking on house that your system wasn't designed to handle can make for uncomfortable space and an overtaxed system.

RX Reven' wrote: This thread is of much interest to me. I’m contemplating adding 95 sq. ft. to my kitchen area. I’m currently at 2,098 sq. ft. and, as of today, the Zillows say my home is worth $774K (because Cal-le-forn-yah) so that’s $368.92 per sq. ft. So, assuming the cost per sq. ft. would be held constant, the addition would add $35,047 to the value to the home. HiTempguy, would it be possible to give me a rough guess as how much it would cost to add 95 sq. ft. to my kitchen.

Pobably no more to add 95 sq ft than to add 950. Things cost money to redo, whether a little or a lot.

RX Reven' wrote: HiTempguy, would it be possible to give me a rough guess as how much it would cost to add 95 sq. ft. to my kitchen.

Pricing is so different compared to here in Canuckistan, it wouldn't help. Last framer I had wouldn't work for less than $35/h under the table And we were lucky if he showed up.

KyAllroad wrote:

RX Reven' wrote: This thread is of much interest to me. I’m contemplating adding 95 sq. ft. to my kitchen area. I’m currently at 2,098 sq. ft. and, as of today, the Zillows say my home is worth $774K (because Cal-le-forn-yah) so that’s $368.92 per sq. ft. So, assuming the cost per sq. ft. would be held constant, the addition would add $35,047 to the value to the home. HiTempguy, would it be possible to give me a rough guess as how much it would cost to add 95 sq. ft. to my kitchen.

Pobably no more to add 95 sq ft than to add 950. Things cost money to redo, whether a little or a lot.

I wouldn't go that far. But there are relatively fixed costs that get amortized over the total square footage. So you can't say "this 500 sq ft addition cost $50,000 so my 200 sq ft addition should cost $20,000." It just doesn't work that way and as size goes down, $/sq ft goes up exponentially, but building more space still costs more money. That being said, build 25% more than you think you need because pricing will not go up 25% to match.

We have added to our house twice now. First was to add a master bath, closet space and a family room to the back of the house. Second was to enlarge the front porch and add a covered car port to the front.

I drew up the general plans and then got bids from several contractors. To save some money the master bath/family room was done in two stages. The family room was built as an open porch and then converted to a family room a couple years later.

Slefain: The only problem I see with your idea is the effect that having the main living quarters in the basement might have on resale value.

I've been doing renovations on houses and buildings for nearly 40 years.

I have virtually no bad stories, except for ones that other guys did or homeowners.

But I am exceptionally good at envisioning things and anticipating what will happen. I regularly do complete gut and replace kitchen jobs in under a week. I've done bathrooms in 3 days, including tile, cabinetry, and rearranging fixtures. I generally complete residential additions in 30 days turnkey.

I am a people person, and the key to doing them efficiently is hand-holding the owner through EVERY decision before we start. Tile, counters, cabinets, finishes, paint colors, floors, drapes, EVERYTHING.

Then I build schedules that are very specific, and work with subs I trust. The way to develop trust with subs is to have a long term history of on-time payments. My subs know they will get paid quickly, and that the schedule will happen just the way I say it will. When I tell the plumber the bathroom will be gutted by 2:00 on the first day, he will be right there roughing in. They also know that they are a big part of making it happen, and that I am counting on them.

I order all of my long lead items in advance, including cabinetry. I won't work with a cabinet maker who tells me he needs to measure after the walls are up. If we all can't build off of plans, it won't work.

I never tell homeowners this, but honestly the biggest reason jobs struggle to get completed is because homeowners are terrible at making decisions. They are drowning in a sea of HGTV and Pinterest ideas, with no actual decisions or understanding. They need a lot of managing, which I do well. They also need to spend money up front on the design, which they are hesitant to do.

Any contractor who says things like, "We won't know for sure until we open up the wall" doesn't know what he is doing, and will drag the project (and the budget) on forever.

Homeowners can save a lot of money doing their own work, until they add in the costs of the divorce.

If you'd rather do it slow and make 1 decision at a time, that's fine. But expect it to take a really long time, and nobody likes living in a mess longer than they have to. It will become a strain on the relationships of the occupants.

No one I know who's started on an expansion project themselves has ever 'finished' it. I have a longtime acquaintance who bought a house with an unfinished upstairs that's still not done... 20 years later. It's a full time job, if you already have a full time job now you have 2 full time jobs and that crap gets old QUICK. That's why it took me nearly a year to finish my shop, I couldn't imagine trying to live in it while doing all that.

As much as I hate paying someone to do something I'm fully capable of doing, a major renovation or addition to a house I'm living in falls in that category; I'll pay someone else.

SVreX wrote: Smart stuff Paul said.

I was hoping you would chime in. You may get a phone call as well.

We've had one renovation done to the house so far (turned the porch into a dining room). I wish the guy who did it was still alive, he was awesome. I have no illusions about doing it ourselves. We did a light renovation on the house when we moved in and that was enough for me. The sheetrock work almost drove me nuts.

We do have one nice option: we could move into the duplex next door while work was being done on the house. That may make things a little easier while things progress. It just means we'll have to do without rent income on that side for a little while.

In reply to SVreX:

Are you still mulling over that "roving GC" plan? Seems like at least a couple of us have houses in need of work.

slefain wrote: We do have one nice option: we could move into the duplex next door while work was being done on the house. That may make things a little easier while things progress. It just means we'll have to do without rent income on that side for a little while.

I was wondering if that was an option. I still regret not being able to buy the house across the street from me when it came up for sale. Besides the obvious pluses of having a 3 bay detached garage and a lot of off-street parking, it would have allowed me to easily move out of my house to renovate it, then move back and rent out the second house (which is the ONLY way I'd ever consider owning a rental house).

@SVreX -- Are you willing to take on a job in NC?? :-)

In reply to Ian F, slefain, and mrwillie:

I have milled over the roving GC thing quite a bit. I'd be good at it, but It became apparent it was going to be incredibly difficult to maintain a steady stream of work. Feeding my family took precedent.

Though work in my local area is terribly scarce, an opportunity presented itself to stay local and work with the best company around. I am currently happily employed, and hope to remain that way.

But, I've got family in ATL, NC, and PA. I also have a pretty good vacation package, so I am not ruling out the possibilities.

Feel free to contact me. I charge $0.00 for advice (and might be willing to do more).

Can you show us a current floorplan, proposed, and lay of the property? Roof type and layout is important too. Going with all bedrooms upstairs and living area downstairs will be tough to resell when the day comes. You may have to "un-remodel" at that point. Could be better to go with the regular addtion in the long run. Adding 2 basement bedrooms and a bath may make a lot more sense.

Watching with interest. I'm looking at finishing out a 1500 ft basement. All poured concrete.

I tore out a wall the first night I moved into my house. I haven't stopped working on it yet 14 years later. The guy before me who built it had more than a few things left unfinished when he died.
I'm fairly convinced that almost no renovations are entirely finished. I'm very lucky because my wife grew up in a house under nearly constant renovation for the last 40 years. She thinks this is normal.

You said the house was built in 1954. How do you know that the basement isn't going to start leaking through the walls a few years after you get all this work done?

JamesMcD wrote: You said the house was built in 1954. How do you know that the basement isn't going to start leaking through the walls a few years after you get all this work done?

How do you know it will?

It doesn't work like that. Masonry construction doesn't just wake up one day and say, "E36 M3, my warranty expired. I guess I'll start leaking now".

I'd take a 1954 full basement without current signs of deterioration over a brand new one ANY DAY.

This is of great interest to me because I live in a very desirable neighborhood. There is not one house around me that has not been added onto, people love it here that much. My house is one of three identical designs built right after WWII. Mine had a garage and two bedrooms added at some point before I purchased it, the one to my right was doubled in size over two years and the one to my left was doubled in size last year. The house at the end of the street had its floorplan doubled and a third story added. Across the street, a huge addition on the back of the house. Up the street, a new living room and wrap-around porch. The list goes on.

From what I have seen, each project was done over a summer, with no obvious delays or issues. My neighbors did theirs in three stages, first the excavation and cinderblock walls went up, then the next summer when some more money was available, they framed it in, then the following summer they did the interior (big kitchen remodel/expansion). If you have a solid plan up front, put in some sweat equity yourself, hire good CG and let them do their job, it seems like a very achievable goal. No clue of budgets for any of them, but we are not a rich neighborhood so I know it can't be a case of just throwing money at it.

I have looked at moving and I just can't see myself in a McMansion plan with a 10 x 8 yard. So someday we will be adding on. My brother is an architect so he'll be doing all plans gratis (he does not know this yet) but the budget is still a dream at this point.

pinchvalve wrote: My brother is an architect so he'll be doing all plans gratis (he does not know this yet) but the budget is still a dream at this point.

Ask all 3 of my sisters how that worked out for them. They even offered to pay me. Hell, it took me 5 years to actually get around to doing plans for my own house. It's a matter of never having time and motivation to work on more work after you've been working all week.

Duke wrote:

pinchvalve wrote: My brother is an architect so he'll be doing all plans gratis (he does not know this yet) but the budget is still a dream at this point.

Ask all 3 of my sisters how that worked out for them. They even offered to pay me. Hell, it took me 5 years to actually get around to doing plans for my *own* house. It's a matter of never having time and motivation to work on more work after you've been working all week.

Easy. Give the sibling some motiviation. I'd go in in the middle of the night and take all of his right shoes to his gym shoes and left shoes to his dress shoes, maybe all his guitars, and all of his beer. Tell him he'll get it back when the work is done, and go and drink his beer.