Riots in Ferguson

In reply to PHeller:

Tasers aren't the end all be all non-lethal device they are cracked up to be. Sometimes they work, sometimes they are lethal, sometimes they don't work and you just wasted multiple seconds with your life on the line.

In reply to PHeller:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtD-4LFrjhM

NYPD doesn't allow the regular officers to carry tasers, just ESU and rigger ranking officers.

Honestly, what Wilson needed was a partner. How likely would the thug have been to reach in the car and bitch slap an officer if he has backup sitting right beside him? I'm all for dash cams, body cams etc, but with the reaction many cops get, they should never be alone IMO.

That falls back on the bean counters.

Ok, well how bout some other form of non-lethal long distance device?

We really can't justify shooting an unarmed man a bunch of times, nor can we justify shooting a 12 year old kid with a toy gun.

If an officer accidentally kills a guy after hitting him with a tazer, isn't that better than loading him full of lead?

I don't think anyone blames Wilson for protecting himself, but with all the technology that law enforcement can and should be using, cant we figure out some way of not killing unarmed people? And don't use the excuse of "police wouldn't kill people if those people didn't attach police," because we all know there a mentally disabled people out there who do irrational things that could easily get them killed.

Bobzilla wrote: Honestly, what Wilson needed was a partner. How likely would the thug have been to reach in the car and bitch slap an officer if he has backup sitting right beside him? I'm all for dash cams, body cams etc, but with the reaction many cops get, they should never be alone IMO. That falls back on the bean counters.

How bout an electrified cop-car that knows when an officer is inside?

How about if when a cop asks someone to stop what they're doing and cooperate that they stop what they're doing and cooperate?

In reply to PHeller:

Dude, put yourself in that position. You're a cop alone and a giant drugged up guy and his buddy charge at you, one of them tackles you and knocks you back into the car. Are you really reaching for the taser?

PHeller wrote: How bout an electrified cop-car that knows when an officer is inside?

Pretty sure that would be considered a booby trap and highly illegal.

Until you understand that every man, woman, and child is armed(fists, feet, elbows, etc), you won't understand what you're seeking to know.

The anti-Ferguson movement has been around since the 90s.

If the media would report this as another case of suicide by cop the reaction would have been a lot different. It seems that the facts in the case don't matter. I am one that is usually on the bandwagon of condemning the police for violence, excessive force, excessive militarization, stealing our private information with electronic gizmos, etc. etc., but in this case I have a hard time finding fault with the officer. If black lives truly matter (and they do), then maybe people should raise their kids to not rob convenience stores, not walk down the middle of the street like you own it, and not ignore a policeman when he tells you to get out of the street. Michael Brown was a victim of his own poor choices, not a victim of racism.

tuna55 wrote: In reply to PHeller: Dude, put yourself in that position. You're a cop alone and a giant drugged up guy and his buddy charge at you, one of them tackles you and knocks you back into the car. Are you really reaching for the taser?

I'd fire on him. But only after checking to see what ethnicity my assailant was first.

In reply to Swank Force One:

Incorrect answer, the correct answer is "I am colorblind"

yamaha wrote:

PHeller wrote: How bout an electrified cop-car that knows when an officer is inside?

Pretty sure that would be considered a booby trap and highly illegal. Until you understand that every man, woman, and child is armed(fists, feet, elbows, etc), you won't understand what you're seeking to know.

I'd like to see the statistics of police killed in the line of duty by perps with bare hands. Then lets look at number of police killed by weapons other than guns. Lets make it more fun by looking at number of police killed by minors with bare hands.

I have friends and family who are LEOs, and I understand completely the chaos that can ensue during stops, which is exactly why we need to develop a full-proof means of subduing (and recording) a violent, unarmed individual quickly and effectively by a single cop regardless of size disparity.

Is a sidearm a readily available and inexpensive means of subduing a violent individual? Sure, but lets add in all the costs involved when things go wrong.

I'm not saying we need to take the sidearm away from law enforcement, but at this point both the law and the citizens should have learned from past mistakes and its apparent that neither side is doing anything about it. I don't want a police state nor do I want a state without law and order.

logdog wrote: The anti-Ferguson movement has been around since the 90s.

Still going strong from the look of it...

I'm with T.J.

Watching last night the media could barely contain their glee running around watching this all happen. I thought the Fox guy was going to pee himself he was so excited to be standing there while a liquor store was being broken into then looted. The rest of them didn't seem to be containing their excitement any better.

The police seemed down right contained this time around. They didn't trot out the paramilitary equipment until things really started getting bad and only then it seemed to utilize the tear gas and protect the fire fighters.

I wonder if Holders replacement is really going to attempt to pursue this any further?

In reply to PHeller:

So how much more of your income are you willing to give to the government to develop better less-than-lethal equipment and techniques? That stuff isn't free you know.

In reply to The0retical:

Be careful agreeing with me. I usually tend to just piss people off in threads like this.

ThunderCougarFalconGoat wrote: In reply to PHeller: So how much more of your income are you willing to give to the government to develop better less-than-lethal equipment and techniques? That stuff isn't free you know.

w

And neither is the criminal justice system, the trials, the rioting, there are a lot of external costs when an officer shoots an unarmed man.

PHeller wrote:

yamaha wrote:

PHeller wrote: How bout an electrified cop-car that knows when an officer is inside?

Pretty sure that would be considered a booby trap and highly illegal. Until you understand that every man, woman, and child is armed(fists, feet, elbows, etc), you won't understand what you're seeking to know.

I'd like to see the statistics of police killed in the line of duty by perps with bare hands. Then lets look at number of police killed by weapons other than guns. Lets make it more fun by looking at number of police killed by minors with bare hands. I have friends and family who are LEOs, and I understand completely the chaos that can ensue during stops, which is exactly why we need to develop a full-proof means of subduing (and recording) a violent, unarmed individual quickly and effectively by a single cop regardless of size disparity. Is a sidearm a readily available and inexpensive means of subduing a violent individual? Sure, but lets add in all the costs involved when things go wrong. I'm not saying we need to take the sidearm away from law enforcement, but at this point both the law and the citizens should have learned from past mistakes and its apparent that neither side is doing anything about it. I don't want a police state nor do I want a state without law and order.

By minor you mean "old enough to serve in the military and hopped up on all kinds of drugs shortly after robbing a convenience store," right?

PHeller wrote:

ThunderCougarFalconGoat wrote: In reply to PHeller: So how much more of your income are you willing to give to the government to develop better less-than-lethal equipment and techniques? That stuff isn't free you know.

w And neither is the criminal justice system, the trials, the rioting, there are a lot of external costs when an officer shoots an unarmed man.

If an unarmed person is attacking an armed person, usually they are both considered armed, as they both have access to the firearm. Many cops killed are shot with their own guns.

Swank Force One wrote: By minor you mean "old enough to serve in the military and hopped up on all kinds of drugs shortly after robbing a convenience store," right?

I'm not referring to Mike Brown in this case, I'm referring to Tarin Rice, or the likely number of unarmed minors that have been killed by police, although I don't have those numbers.

Must refrain.

In reply to tuna55:

Bingo, just because they are unarmed doesn't mean they can use their fists/feet/etc to gain access to a firearm. IIRC, the number of officers killed by their own weapon is quite staggering.

In reply to PHeller:

See above

what make me sad is what was burned.

I can understand an argument of taking out your anger on a national faced business franchise because it may represent the distant un-caring face of a national corporation that doesn't care about the community. I may not agree with it, but i can at least fathom it.

...but can someone help me fathom why they burn down a Smart Storage that has the personal items of people who live in the community?