Russia to do to Engineering what India did to IT

I was going to say Germany - they've had 40% and above for decades - but just noticed that the corporate tax there and in France is now hovering around the same levels as over here. Most European countries have a flat rate tax on corporate profits, not the progressive one seen in the US, and they do seem to have fewer options like the pass-through legislation available here.

Oddly enough, some of the countries in Western Europe that are in worst shape have rather low corporation tax (UK and Ireland for starters).

^Japan is the only one I can think of.

^False correlation, most of Ireland's new found wealth was built on the banking industry. So when it crashed, so did Ireland.

z31maniac wrote: ^Japan is the only one I can think of.

Japan seems to be higher by a fraction of a percent presently, but is dropping.

We're number 2, soon to be number 1.

Wooohooo!!!!! Gooooo.... US?

Disagree - there was a reason that a lot of bank subsidiaries moved to Ireland, but that wasn't the cause of the crash.

They had a real estate bubble of crazy proportions and the banks overextended, partially because they had become the favourite place for non-EU companies to open subsidiaries and tons of people moved into the few metropolitan areas like Dublin.

Dr. Hess wrote:

Type Q wrote: The analytic Hess at work.

Google is staffed by left wing, borderline commie Democrats. Deny that one, Q. Just take a gander at where the political donations went. Always follow the money. Not that the R's have been much better. The only people consistently to get screwed are us.

I am sure that Google and affiliated organizations supported democrats. But if you think they a bunch of communists you need to take off the hammer and sickle colored glasses you are looking at the world through.

z31maniac wrote:

killerkane wrote: Yeah, lowering taxes ALWAYS fixes the problem Mr. Reagan... *Figurative puddle of sarcasm*

So what college courses are you taking this semester?

It was meant to be a joke on Reagan's oh-so-brilliant deficit spending, (aka Reagonomics) and that funny correlation to the deficit graph going up...

Once again, as is happening in a LOT of threads lately, it's become name-calling, insult throwing, gosip/semi-fact-spinning garbage being thrown around. Like a room in a kindergarten.

We all need winter to go away and get back to cars and things that are fun. And not sit in front of a computer, think of a subject and play lobbyist.

This used to be one of my favorite sites to come to, now it's dissolving into lots of crap.

In reply to triumph5:

I've mostly been pleasantly surprised at the level of discourse. Yeah, some of these threads have gotten ugly, but for a while we've been seeing really rather civil exchanges of ideas on unions, religion, legislation and all kinds of stuff, and the ugliest exchange I saw was on drive-by-wire...

Compared with so much of the Internet, I'm still damn well impressed. And I appreciate the opportunity to hear the arguments, as where I live I'm mostly surrounded by people who already lean the same way I do, and that's not great for criticism and analysis of one's own views.

In reply to ransom:

I would agree. For the most part, these debates are pretty civil. At least as internet discussions about politics go. I have great respect for the posters here. I may not always agree with what they say or how they say it, but that doesn't mean I don't try to learn from it.

The amusing part for me is that my g/f could be Hess's daughter, their views are so similar...

I apologize for stiring the fire, I have passed up a few of these threads but this was just too obvious to pass up. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Joshua

Xceler8x wrote: Read this book - Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry Into the Value of Work.

I just checked it out... I'll start reading it later on tonight.

The answer to all your problems is 64 slices of American cheese.

BoxheadTim wrote: Disagree - there was a reason that a lot of bank subsidiaries moved to Ireland, but that wasn't the cause of the crash. They had a real estate bubble of crazy proportions and the banks overextended, partially because they had become the favourite place for non-EU companies to open subsidiaries and tons of people moved into the few metropolitan areas like Dublin.

I think you forgot to add Ireland's increase in spending; spending that was unsustainable when revenues evaporated.

^Thank you for pointing that out so I didn't have to. Kind of sounds like the problem we are running into in America now, huh?

I could be completely wrong, but it seemed as though he was trying to illustrate an argument where the corporate tax rate in Ireland had some type of causal relationship to the crash of the their economy.

That's what I was disagreeing with.

killerkane wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

killerkane wrote: Yeah, lowering taxes ALWAYS fixes the problem Mr. Reagan... *Figurative puddle of sarcasm*

So what college courses are you taking this semester?

It was meant to be a joke on Reagan's oh-so-brilliant deficit spending, (aka Reagonomics) and that funny correlation to the deficit graph going up...

It's true, congress still ran a deficit. But it doesn't change the fact that revenues did go up, unfortunately the monkeys controlling the purse strings did like most Americans when they get a better job/raise/etc.

Why save it when we can spend it!

z31maniac wrote: ^Thank you for pointing that out so I didn't have to. Kind of sounds like the problem we are running into in America now, huh? I could be completely wrong, but it seemed as though he was trying to illustrate an argument where the corporate tax rate in Ireland had some type of causal relationship to the crash of the their economy. That's what I was disagreeing with.

killerkane wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

killerkane wrote: Yeah, lowering taxes ALWAYS fixes the problem Mr. Reagan... *Figurative puddle of sarcasm*

So what college courses are you taking this semester?

It was meant to be a joke on Reagan's oh-so-brilliant deficit spending, (aka Reagonomics) and that funny correlation to the deficit graph going up...

It's true, congress still ran a deficit. But it doesn't change the fact that revenues did go up, unfortunately the monkeys controlling the purse strings did like most Americans when they get a better job/raise/etc. Why save it when we can spend it!

Yep, which is what caused the recession in the first place. Sad day!

z31maniac wrote: ....It's true, congress still ran a deficit. But it doesn't change the fact that revenues did go up, unfortunately the monkeys controlling the purse strings did like most Americans when they get a better job/raise/etc. Why save it when we can spend it!

I do wonder about this whole "Reagan Myth" thing.

From what I understand, he cut taxes, but then ending up raising taxes almost as much after getting into a deep deficit dive. He also massively increased military spending (I am pretty sure he was the "monkey" in this case). What would now days be call "a stimulus bill", because it is basically the same spending (mostly government contractors).

I am suspicious that the revenues that were seen were (at least partially) the result of pumping huge amounts of money into the (military) economy and the resulting trickle back (see what I did there) from that.

I am suspicious that Reagan is a bit of a false idol.

Ireland's collapse is a rather interesting study. I would not say it was totally unrelated. It went like this:

Ireland has almost always had "issues." As in extreme poverty. Why, exactly, I don't know, but I would guess that like most perpetual poverty in the world, it is politically driven from corruption. Anyway, Ireland was doing OK. The economy had recovered from the last crisis, they set up super favorable tax rates and laws to attract foreign companies (see Google example above), they joined the EU and gave up their currency for the Euro and got a bunch of cheap loans. Money was pouring into the place. Money had to go somewhere, and it went to property, creating the mother of all property bubbles, with banks springing up all over to manage all this mortgage debt. The Irish government was fairly conservative. They didn't spend money they didn't have. That is, no deficits, or minuscule anyway. Things were going well. The banks were raking it in. To "make" even more money, they were borrowing abroad at basically a negative interest rate and loaning the money out to anyone and everyone, especially those outside of Ireland. Then the pop came. The banks suddenly found themselves up to their eyeballs upside down. They had a whole bunch of worthless assets and no income. They owed everyone money, especially the Germans, French, and English. They were bankrupt. They were also declared too big to fail, and the Irish government, which had very little debt, remember, suddenly took on all the bad debt from these private Irish banks that the banks owed to foreigners. Now, instantly, Ireland itself was bankrupt. And, since they were on the Euro, they could not do like every other country has historically done and just print more money to give to the creditors. They were truly berkeleyed. Who did it? Why? An accident? Stoopidity? Greed? Take your pick. Although it was probably Obama. That was a joke for you humor-challenged. Actually, I strongly suspect The O's boss, Soros was very involved in this.

India and china have been outsourcing engineering for many many years. I put together a design package, they actually did the work. Nothing new here..

Let the odd soros boogey man continue.. While Glenn beck thinks that the Japan quake was a message from god.. ugh.. Now he's a TV preacher.

killerkane wrote:

z31maniac wrote: ^Thank you for pointing that out so I didn't have to. Kind of sounds like the problem we are running into in America now, huh? I could be completely wrong, but it seemed as though he was trying to illustrate an argument where the corporate tax rate in Ireland had some type of causal relationship to the crash of the their economy. That's what I was disagreeing with.

killerkane wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

killerkane wrote: Yeah, lowering taxes ALWAYS fixes the problem Mr. Reagan... *Figurative puddle of sarcasm*

So what college courses are you taking this semester?

It was meant to be a joke on Reagan's oh-so-brilliant deficit spending, (aka Reagonomics) and that funny correlation to the deficit graph going up...

It's true, congress still ran a deficit. But it doesn't change the fact that revenues did go up, unfortunately the monkeys controlling the purse strings did like most Americans when they get a better job/raise/etc. Why save it when we can spend it!

Yep, which is what caused the recession in the first place. Sad day!

Reagan raised taxes something like 11-13 times in his tenure...

Tax revuenue's were up by a tiny tiny margin, but his spending was through the roof..

http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/08/news/economy/reagan_years_taxes/index.htm

Reagan's myths need to fall.

aircooled wrote: I am suspicious that Reagan is a bit of a false idol.

He is.. but don't let things like facts get in way of the idol worship....

Type Q wrote:

Dr. Hess wrote: Corporate taxes are another piece of the puzzle. I suggest ya'll look up "Dutch Sandwich." We get the E36 M3 Sandwich, the multinationals get the other one. Basically, and as near as I can figger, it works like this, picking Google as a prime example. Hi Google. Google is a US company. But, it "really" isn't. They "buy" services that just happen to cost whatever they get from one of their overseas "affiliates" or subidiaries, hard to tell. In this case, when, say Margie sends Google a e-check for some advertising to up the GRM site when someone googles "miata autocross," let's say, that money doesn't go to Google US. It goes to Google Ireland. Now, Ireland just happens to be in the EU. Funny, but the Netherlands (y0, homies) is in the EU also, and as such, money can flow from Ireland to the Netherlands unchecked. So that GRM dollar goes to Google Netherlands, which has like 2 people in an office somewhere, probably near the red light district in Amsterdam so they can "entertain" the US executives when they "visit." Anyway, once the dollar is in the Netherlands, it can transfer to other Dutch "entities" like the Netherlands Antillies unhindered. Now it's in the Caribbean in a tax haven. So, Google (HI GOOGLE) pays no taxes on its US revenue streams. We get the E36 M3 sandwich and subsidize Google through our taxes for the infrastructure they use, built with tax dollars. If there's a bean counter out there that has a better understanding of this, I'd like to hear it.

The analytic Hess at work.

No.. It's the I read it on abcnews.com hess..

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/google-loophole-dodge-corporate-taxes-bloomberg-report/story?id=11939752

His analysis is regurgitated... Yawn.

huge-O-chavez wrote:

aircooled wrote: I am suspicious that Reagan is a bit of a false idol.

He is.. but don't let things like facts get in way of the idol worship....

Hmmmmmm.......................What political figures most common poster is an artistic rendering of himself with the word "HOPE" on it?

MrJoshua wrote:

huge-O-chavez wrote:

aircooled wrote: I am suspicious that Reagan is a bit of a false idol.

He is.. but don't let things like facts get in way of the idol worship....

Hmmmmmm.......................What political figures most common poster is an artistic rendering of himself with the word "HOPE" on it?

I have a feeling he didn't draw those, probably not that good of an artist.

MrJoshua wrote:

huge-O-chavez wrote:

aircooled wrote: I am suspicious that Reagan is a bit of a false idol.

He is.. but don't let things like facts get in way of the idol worship....

Hmmmmmm.......................What political figures most common poster is an artistic rendering of himself with the word "HOPE" on it?

Sorry.. He's leading us OUT of a massive recession, unlike Reagan who lead us into one.. Lil' bit of a difference.

and hardly any idol worship with obama going on.. He was elected in a similar wave of enthusiasm to bed time for bonzo...