Schools, Shootings, Children and Adulthood

Fueled by Caffeine said:

In reply to SVreX :

My wife isn’t eligible for those benefits.  Would be nice. But not us. She has $0 in retirement savings.  I’ve been saving for the both of us since day 1. 

I understand that, and know that is the case for many. 

My point was your post was framed in a manner to suggest that teachers are underpaid, which is often not the complete picture at all. 

A person who chooses to teach part time is probably not going to make much, just like other industries. 

I make significantly more than my father ever did (and I have good benefits). But his lifetime package far exceeds mine. 

In reply to SVreX :

yeah, my wife is far from underpaid. she currently makes twice what I make, and works 180 days a year. 

GameboyRMH said:

Carbon said:

And can't win because the game is rigged. Don't tell people that people who are winning are evil cheaters.

These are mostly true though. The cost of censoring these messages would be allowing the exploitation to continue, making society objectively and measurably worse.

Taking away anonymity on the net would fix an awful lot of problems. 

"Free speech" is not the same thing as inciteful speech. 

If every person who posted a nasty reply on a website, offered political divisiveness, or just wanted to spew hate had to identify themselves, the problem would go a long way to fixing itself. 

I don't see online discourse in general as being a major part of the problem. Taking away online anonymity would create at least as many problems as it solves (see: China's Internet experience), so I don't think that's a good idea. There are better ways to fix most of the problems caused by anonymous online speech.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

If you think those things are "mostly true" then  we have a very very different world view. 

Carbon said:

In reply to GameboyRMH :

If you think those things are "mostly true" then  we have a very very different world view. 

That's fine. Let me show you where mine comes from:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/economists-your-parents-are-more-important-than-ever/283301/

https://www.npr.org/2017/05/31/530843665/top-20-percent-of-americans-hoard-the-american-dream

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/ahead-of-davos-even-the-1-percent-worry-about-inequality/2018/01/21/551392d0-fd2f-11e7-ad8c-ecbb62019393_story.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/07/revealed-30-year-economic-betrayal-dragging-down-generation-y-income

It's a shame that so much of this info is US-centric, because most countries have it even worse.

In reply to SVreX :

So, the Federalist Papers would not have been allowed?

In reply to SVreX :

I agree. I don't like anonymity online. 

I moderate a facebook group for local politics. Some folks like to come on there and troll. I find this detracts from the purpose of our group, which is to actually give a damn about the future of our community. Trolling doesn't help this. I've debated requiring all new members use their actual names and report their addresses. Others find this to be an invasion of privacy. 

pheller said:

In reply to SVreX :

I agree. I don't like anonymity online. 

I moderate a facebook group for local politics. Some folks like to come on there and troll. I find this detracts from the purpose of our group, which is to actually give a damn about the future of our community. Trolling doesn't help this. I've debated requiring all new members use their actual names and report their addresses. Others find this to be an invasion of privacy. 

Sounds like you need some anti-trolling policy rather than a ban on anonymity/pseudonymity, because there are people who DGAF and will continue to troll even if you get their real names...and there are people who play nice but will quit rather than give up their privacy. Maybe some rules about ad-hominems would be a good start?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/02/28/georgia-teacher-custody-after-police-say-he-fired-shot-empty-classroom/381955002/

arming teachers....

ugh...

I'm for thicker skin and getting over yourselves (not personally, worldy). People are butthurt over EVERYTHING. the whole PC movement created some ofthis crap. 

In reply to Bob the REAL oil guy. :

PC movement?  Comodore64 for LIFE!

The problem is that there is so much misinformation out there that it's very hard to discern what is the truth. Much of the misinformation is intensionally  put out there, then spread by people (and news agencies) who cling to it if it supports their position. Often a completely false story gets picked up and spread by a "reputable" source which lends it more credibility. 

While I don't think it's right to prevent anonymous info, I myself give little credence to anything without a verified source. Now that we know that we have outside influence in our online media with the sole goal of sowing discourse, I take everything I hear with a grain of salt. I've given myself a waiting period with any "news," as so much that initially comes out proves to later be false. But the retraction never gets the attention of the original story. 

Bob the REAL oil guy. said:

I'm for thicker skin and getting over yourselves (not personally, worldy). People are butthurt over EVERYTHING. the whole PC movement created some ofthis crap. 

This. 1000x this

In reply to GameboyRMH :

If you want to win in this country, you can win. Helping at risk youth see that is what I do for a living. I've got hundreds of first hand success stories from people from the worst situations imaginable, that I've shown that if you want it bad enough and are willing to sacrifice you will achieve your goals. Whining about how unfair life is, is a great way to feel better about your bad outcome but it isn't the path to success. You're welcome to your opinion but it's never gonna be mine. 

The question I suggest people ask is... is truth internet data? Or is it the mindset that gets the desired outcome for the people we're trying to help? 

That being said, I appreciate your well argued and thorough argument. 

In reply to Carbon :

We can be examples of how through determination, hard work, and sacrifice anyone can make it. Growth mindset -> anything is possible. I agree, whining won't get a person anywhere.

In the background, people can also be that helping hand, advocate, and mentor. Either as a parent, educator, or just a good person. Support network -> No one has pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps. They all have had some sort of help, be it big or small, even though many claim to have done it on their own. Sometimes people just need someone willing to give them a chance.

There has been a lot of talk about parenting in this thread. I think if you are introspective enough to talk about it here, your probably going to do (or have done) a pretty good job. Unfortunately, that is not always the case. Can we help to those who, for whatever reason, will potentially commit an act of mass murder? Can we take away their ability to do the same?

... and yeah Vermont!

... I do not normally post a lot, but this has been one of my favorite threads on GRM. Many different perspectives, opposing views, and insight. Most of them intelligently and thoughtfully posted. Thank you to all those who have contributed.  I would really like to see all discussions that help people not shooting up places continue.

That being said, BOX FLARES are berkeleying AWESOME!!! Keep posting there!

Bob the REAL oil guy. said:

I'm for thicker skin and getting over yourselves (not personally, worldy). People are butthurt over EVERYTHING. the whole PC movement created some ofthis crap. 

Wanting people to treat each other with respect, and then getting upset when people don't; is a real problem with modern society.

Bob the REAL oil guy. said:

I'm for thicker skin and getting over yourselves (not personally, worldy). People are butthurt over EVERYTHING. the whole PC movement created some ofthis crap. 

The schools' 'zero tolerance' policies also created some of this.  If the kids getting bullied can't even defend themselves without the adults punishing them, it breeds even more angst. I have a couple ridiculous 'zero tolerance' BS stories from my son and friends. 

I'm not a big fan of adding more laws and compromising civil rights, particularly when the current ones aren't being enforced uniformly, and we have repeated failures of intel.  The rush do DO SOMETHING NOW is what led to the cluster that is the TSA after 9/11. 

However, I've come to believe that one way to stop a subset of these mass murders would be to just ghost the killers.  Rather than have the media spend weeks analyzing every aspect of their life, just disappear them.  Rather than becoming famous/infamous, they just go away and become 'Sheep Berkleyer #1', removing the impetus for 'fame'.  The POS Chardon, OH shooter repeatedly used the media to further his 'fame', even taunting families in court(and on TV), then somehow escaped from prison(!!!) and was unfortunately captured alive. 

We apparently almost had a copycat shooter in a nearby town this week (Jackson Twp, OH).  A 13 y/o (!!!!) shot himself with a long gun at school, but had social media notes about how famous he would be. 

OK, flame away...

In reply to XLR99 :

Not entirely a bad idea, unfortunately gagging the media would have everyone screaming about their first amendment rights.

Go the other way and have their expedited executions on the courthouse lawn.  Televised and publicized so there can be no mistaking the punishment.  (I know, before anyone even says anything, we aren't a bloodthirsty people anymore.)

KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:

(I know, before anyone even says anything, we aren't a bloodthirsty people anymore.)

Disagree. People would still show up in droves if we held public hangings like we used to.

Bob the REAL oil guy. said:

I'm for thicker skin and getting over yourselves (not personally, worldy). People are butthurt over EVERYTHING. the whole PC movement created some ofthis crap. 

The PC movement as you put it is nothing more than being polite. You don’t tell your aunt Judy she’s a dried up old hag not if you ever want to be included in family events. It doesn’t matter if it’s true.  It’s not polite. Or didn’t you learn how to be polite when you were growing up?  

In reply to frenchyd :

That's not correct. The PC movement is not the same thing as being polite. 

Some of the most polite people I know are the polar opposite of PC, and some PC folks are complete asses. 

I don't think you understand what the PC movement is. 

In reply to SVreX & frenchyd :

I agree with SVreX - being polite is not the same as being PC. You can be polite and speak the truth, you can be polite and have a differing opinion, you can be polite and have an unpopular opinion. You cannot do those things while being PC. The PC movement is about censorship and control. It is about feelings over facts. It is about emotion over logic. It is about creating a monoculture over true diversity of ideas.

I like this thread because I can learn about how others see the world and thinking about different points of view helps one examine their own points of view.

When people are too far apart it is hard to even have a conversation because there may be no common ground, but it is important to try to listen and learn.

I believe plenty has been said about the difference between PC and polite. Nice to go personal though about my upbringing. Real classy.