Scion needs our help

I just read that Scion is bringing in some new cars to try to enliven the brand, but they are all gutless econoboxes. If you want to attract young buyers, in an age where a lot of them don't care about cars and don't even drive, I think this is the wrong approach. The ones who do buy are "car people" and they want to work on their cars and fix them up and maybe head to an autocross or track day. Why not give them some real performance options?

There is a Scion Tc on my street and I can't get over how close they are. It looks cool, has great proportions, and is affordable, has 180hp in 3100# chassis. All it needs is a SI/ST/GTI version, something with a turbo and 225 HP and some suspension tuning. Am I crazy here, or could Scion dominate the tuner crowd that Honda abandoned with a few decent products?

Yep there's definitely room for some sporty FWD econoboxes...the tC isn't sporty enough though, IMO. I'm thinking a sporty Yaris would make sense, it's already a pretty light car by modern standards.

I think that Scion sales would go up if they just stuck a Toyota badge on them.

If the ads are any indication, people don't care about what a car is, as long as it has a lot of fancy electronic doodads.

Didn't the demographics show that most Scions were actually bought by people 40-and older?

In reply to petegossett:

I wouldn't be surprised if that were true. Same story with those hamster cars. I hardly ever see one not being driven by someone with blue or white hair. I think older people have more money and like the idea of buying something that is marketed to be young and hip but is still really just a practical simple vehicle.

It's like when everything in the 90's had to be extreme and I think the net result of all the advertising was to get some 60+ demographic to start drinking Mt. Dew once in a while.

T.J. wrote: In reply to petegossett: I wouldn't be surprised if that were true. Same story with those hamster cars. I hardly ever see one not being driven by someone with blue or white hair. I think older people have more money and like the idea of buying something that is marketed to be young and hip but is still really just a practical simple vehicle. It's like when everything in the 90's had to be extreme and I think the net result of all the advertising was to get some 60+ demographic to start drinking Mt. Dew once in a while.

I tend to think a lot of older customers are buying these cars because they are cheap, have a good warranty and represent a strong value, as well as being easy to get in and out of and with some room inside.

rotard wrote: I think that Scion sales would go up if they just stuck a Toyota badge on them.

This.

Toyota has to realize that "Hip" happens and cant be controlled in something as narrow range as a car brand.

I bought the FRS DESPITE the Scion branding, certainly not because of it.

Edit: and I am certainly in the over 40 demographic.

mattmacklind wrote:

T.J. wrote: In reply to petegossett: I wouldn't be surprised if that were true. Same story with those hamster cars. I hardly ever see one not being driven by someone with blue or white hair. I think older people have more money and like the idea of buying something that is marketed to be young and hip but is still really just a practical simple vehicle. It's like when everything in the 90's had to be extreme and I think the net result of all the advertising was to get some 60+ demographic to start drinking Mt. Dew once in a while.

I tend to think a lot of older customers are buying these cars because they are cheap, have a good warranty and represent a strong value, as well as being easy to get in and out of and with some room inside.

Plus, young buyers DON'T buy them because they are either not cheap enough, or not cool enough (or both). We had the same issue with the Focus- making it for young buyers, but older ones got it. Mostly.

And Scion needs no help from me.

Toyota, make a modern 4AGE toss it in lightweight chassis. Add a 1.4-1.6L di turbo engine and repeat. Bring back the mr2 and fx-16.

Scion was supposed to be Toyota's solution to them becoming Oldsmobile...it didn't work. On some Scion models the age demographic surpassed that of Yota!!!

Not to flounder, but as long as wages stay stagnant, and the average price of entry level cars rise, the chances of selling a low cost anything goes down. Very down. Because the demographic they are chasing don't have the money for new. They have to buy used.

The old days of start them here and let them move up is over, because the model moves up market to where it is. Start here used, move into a base model new, move into a new model one trim level up. Die being able to afford the same model but top trim.

But yes, Scion could poach a few from a smaller growing market by making more interesting cars. Just to be clear that is more than wheels and a AEM body kit on a Corolla.

In reply to Flight Service:

Just to be clear, when did the era of getting a brand new car for young people end?

It sure was not around in 1991, when I got out of college. I didn't get a brand new car until 1999. And most people I worked with did the same- and we work for a car company. A guy I work with started two years before me, and it wasn't until 2002 he got a brand new car. Which was a Focus- cheap car for a guy in his 30's, 12 years after starting a good paying engineering job.

It's never been clear to me why any car maker thinks that there is a significant market of 20's aged buyers for cheap cars.

In reply to alfadriver:

Inflection point is right after the 2008 crash.

Before that, we've all heard the stories of American men in the '70s buying brand-new cars (that today would be priceless classics) for demo derby...so at some point it was certainly normal for young people to buy new cars.

I think it was before that. And I agree, car makers selling cars to "hip college kids" is dumb. College kids buy used or they get cars mommy and daddy buy for them. Remember the Honda Element? Squarely aimed at the young and active and totally missed (they may be buying them now as they age through the used car market) but originally went to much older buyers.

I would have bought my FR-S even if it had a Daihatsu badge.

Flight Service wrote: In reply to alfadriver: Inflection point is right after the 2008 crash.

It had to have been at least 30 years before that- as I don't remember but a handful of new employees getting new cars. Most of them had something used. And did that for a long time.

Moreso now that the average age of cars on the road is over 10 years old- which is older now than it's ever been.

the more I think about it, the less I think it was ever common- my dad graduated in 1954, and got a great job at the time. But didn't get a brand new car until 1959.

I know what kind of feedback Im going to get, but I will still say it - I still believe that the first manufacturer who puts out a 4 digit MSRP, 110hp car with manual everything, room for 4 adults, and a decent warranty will finally be able to get some sub 30 year olds to spend money on new cars, and will sell a ton to the rest of the entry level and fleet market.

As it is, Im 35 and bought my first brand-new car just in January of this year, despite having had what I consider a decent job for about a decade now. I still feel a little wonky about the depreciation hit, but I needed a decent vehicle for work, and I still bought entry level, but a mid pack trim option - 2014 Cruze LT 1.4t/6spd manual. If it were available in a trim level that didnt have XM and Onstar and power windows and remote entry and alloys and turbo, probably couldve come in under $10k...Well, I wont lie, I probably wouldnt have bought it, not now, but maybe 6 or 7 years ago.

KyAllroad wrote: I think it was before that. And I agree, car makers selling cars to "hip college kids" is dumb. College kids buy used or they get cars mommy and daddy buy for them.

Maybe that's the market these cars are aimed at, spoiled teenagers whose parents are buying new cars for them.

In reply to 4cylndrfury:

That car has been tried many times. Every time ending with the end of try and not making money.

It's hard enough making money on a car that sells for ~$16k, I can't imagine one that sells brand new for under $10k. And companies found out the hard way that being the bottom basement $$ car is a bad idea.

Cheap, no-frills cars are out there right now- and they are the lowest selling cars out there. Well, other than Lincoln.

Close on price but they are hardly buying them in hordes.

In reply to alfadriver:

You take that back!!! Lincoln isn't even in the bottom 13. You know what is?

Scion IQ

So you are half right!

Which of the big 3/Tier 1s do you work for? I used to work at Faurecia in SC. BMW, MB and GM were our big customers.

Why bother, the ST family has that market covered pretty well.

In reply to Flight Service:

F.

And I worked on the MKS/MKT EcoBoost project. So I think I can abuse them.

JohnRW1621 wrote: Close on price but they are hardly buying them in hordes.

That's because the price is $2k above target while the value is about $3k below target. If it was $10k worth of car selling for $12k it would sell more.