My house is great, but... it had been flipped in 2012 and the shower valve is a super cheapy one. It turns 180 degrees off, cold, hot.
the range of just right is about 1/4 of a degree. God forbid you bump it 1 mm with your knee and suddenly you're either doing a Polar Plunge or feel like a lobster being steamed. Looking to replace it with a decent valve that doesn't suck trying to find the right temperature. Can you recommend a good valve that has a broader arc where it mixes hot and cold?
Get a shower valve from a plumbing supply store ,I've been using delta for years .The valve body , cartridge and the trim ring kit are sold separately .About 200 +/- will get you something that will go for many years and when you have to replace a part they will most likely have it behind the jobber counter. The big box stores are always changing venders and may not carry what you bought just 6 months ago .
I like our Symmons Temptrol. It's a design that been around forever.
I put Moen mixers in my last couple showers and they seem to be fine. One from HD does seem flimsy compared with one my plumber bought at Ferguson.
X 2 on the Symmons Temptrol.
What valve do you have currently? Delta (and possibly other) valves use the same rough-in valve body with a different cartridge and trim kit for different feature levels. If you're lucky you can slap a new upgraded cartridge and trim kit into the existing valve body.
We have "dual function" Deltas and they're great. Separate control of the temperature and flow, and there's a thermostatic element to the temp control so once you set the temp handle it's always the same next shower.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
Not a plumber (NAP?) but at one point I had 6 bathrooms that all had Moen shower valves-they've been fine.
Your current valve sounds like (or functions like) a Moen Posi-temp (180 degree arc, no volume control). I like the moentrol better because you can control the volume of water and they just "felt" better. Before making any decisions you should probably remove the escutcheon and see how tight things are back there, and what pipe material you'll be working with.
https://solutions.moen.com/Article_Library/Tub_and_Shower_Systems
Might want to see if lowering the temp at your water heater helps too. If the hot water isn't as hot I think it would give a slightly wider arc of acceptable temps.
I'm a DELTA guy. Warranted forever should it begin to leak or whatever. Their customer service has been fantastic.
In reply to footinmouth :
Always. Having worked as a contractor in the past and having also worked at home depot.... i go to the plumber's supply houses
In reply to newrider3 :
The one I have has a name I've never heard. I don't think they went to the box store, I think they went to AliExpress or Amazon.
In reply to CrustyRedXpress :
The whole house is PEX (including the tub spout stub which is strange)
Mine is off, cold flow, then as you get to around 90 degrees of rotation you get in the sweet zone. 1mm left or right and it's ice cubes or lava. It's not about the temp of the heater, it's that the range of motion where it actually mixes is so tiny.
0 degrees is off. 5 degrees is on cold. 5 degrees until 87 degrees is still 100% cold. 87 degrees to 92 degrees is the part where it actuall mixes. 93-180 degrees is full hot.
It's Just a cheap valve. I just want to replace with something that adjustments don't require tiny micro motions smaller than a mm
Symmons Temptrol here too. Took a break from the Kohler and Moen stuff and we are extremely pleased with it.
Moen shower valves have less problems than every other brand. I only install moen in our remodels. I have had to put cartridges in delta that were only a couple of years old and when the break they usually get stuck in the valve body.
I've had good luck with Moen as well.
I need to clarify... I don't need temp-sensing or auto adjustment. I just need one that isn't all or nothing. I have no problems if the washer, dishwasher, or toilet demands water, the problem is that the way the valve seems to be constructed, the range of acceptable temperatures is infinitely small.
In fact, I don't really want temperature-control. I want a dumb-ass valve that turns on and off and mixes hot and cold.
Current valve vs. the valve I want:
Now that I'm home, I looked again at the valve. It's an AquaSense which is apparently one of the Graf brands, but it's very cheap. All plastic, even the escutcheon.
newrider3 said:What valve do you have currently? Delta (and possibly other) valves use the same rough-in valve body with a different cartridge and trim kit for different feature levels. If you're lucky you can slap a new upgraded cartridge and trim kit into the existing valve body.
We have "dual function" Deltas and they're great. Separate control of the temperature and flow, and there's a thermostatic element to the temp control so once you set the temp handle it's always the same next shower.
I installed the Moen version of this in my last house and it was fine, but even that one required very tiny adjustments which caused big swings in temp.
It was nice though... you set it once. You adjust it in the spring and fall when the incoming cold water is 50 or 70 based on the ambient outdoor temps, but otherwise just set and forget.
My only pet peeve with this style is the water wasting while you wait for the hot to get to the valve. I always turn the valve full hot until it gives hot water, then turn it to my adjustment. This way I'm not wasting an extra gallon of cold waiting for it to get hot water to the valve.
I'd turn down the thermostat on your water heater.
Water heaters are often set at 140*. That's absurd.
Anti-scald valves (now required), usually limit the temp to 120*.
Bit a comfortable shower is typically 96-104*.
I can't figure out why I should pay to maintain temperatures at 120-140*, when I only want it to be 104*. So I spend money to heat it too high, then I have to waste cold water and money to lower the temp and make it usable.
I like to set my water heater so that full hot = a good hot shower (that won't burn me). I never have trouble washing dishes or clothes.
If you did that, the right hand side of your graph "lava" would be "good hot shower" at its most extreme. The entire red zone would be comfortable shower range, and you wouldn't have to worry about the narrow band in the middle mixing in cold.
You can set the moen posi temp by removing the handle and adjusting the white stop. We do this in all children's and elderly bathrooms so they only have to turn it fully on.
In reply to SV reX :
My water heater is set to 120, mostly because my dishwasher sucks if it's any cooler and it doesn't have it's own heater... a problem which will be remedied when the dishwasher finally dies and I get a new one.
The house I grew up in dad kept it at 180 because we had baseboard water heat. You could make tea or coffee with tap water. THAT was insane.
But your assertion is exactly spot on. They say water heaters are most efficient at higher temperatures, but I hate the idea that I live alone and spend money to keep water hot 24/7 when I only spend 10 hours a day in the house and 10 minutes of that actually using hot water.
I'll put in a vote for Pfister. I put them in 2 bathrooms, sink as well as shower valves. They have been great. Also lifetime warranty and no fusing about honoring it. I have hard water and it ate at the sink faucet. They sent a whole new system with just a picture of the bad one.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:It's not about the temp of the heater, it's that the range of motion where it actually mixes is so tiny.
I think those two things are related. If your hot water temp was 1k degrees then the area on the valve where you could achieve a comfortable temp would be miniscule because the smallest volume of the super heated water would overwhelm the cold.
OTOH if you do what SVREX suggested the entire hot water area would be comfortable for a shower b/c your water tank would be set to that temp.
Some bath/shower valves have individual valves for hot/cold water that sit before the main valve. If yours has that then I think decreasing the hot water flow before it gets to the main valve body would also work, I think.
I'm probably projecting. Just got done with a "once in a lifetime" bathroom remodel the idea of swapping a shower valve gives me the shakes.
In reply to CrustyRedXpress :
I agree, but it's not the only issue. The valve only mixes in a tiny fraction of the arc of travel. I have checked it with an IR thermometer, and it's also so abrupt that it makes the pipes bang in the basement when you get to the small middle part that actually mixes. It's just a E36 M3 valve.
The other downside to having your water under 120 degrees is the potential for bacterial/microbe growth. You don't want a warm bath for the yucky stuff. I had that problem at the cabin. I kept it just warm enough to make shower water and had to replace the heater. My hot water smelled like rotten eggs and death.
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