AngryCorvair wrote: how is it that "equality" is automatically "good"? even when expanded to "equality of opportunity", how do we define "opportunity" and how is "equality of opportunity" automatically good?
Example: Me, the white ginger boy; and someone else of a another race / gender / religion apply for a job. This is not factored into the employer's consideration. = Equality
Bob, I have to dissagree. I think we are sacrificing more than we used to. Sure we are not sacrificning the "little stuff" internet, cable, ETC.
But we are sacrificing the big stuff. ie We need a dual incomes to make ends meet.
MCarp22 wrote:AngryCorvair wrote: how is it that "equality" is automatically "good"? even when expanded to "equality of opportunity", how do we define "opportunity" and how is "equality of opportunity" automatically good?Example: Me, the white ginger boy; and someone else of a another race / gender / religion apply for a job. This is not factored into the employer's consideration. = Equality
No equality for ginger kids!
A ginger kid raped and murdered my Audi.
MCarp22 wrote: Example: Me, the white ginger boy; and someone else of a another race / gender / religion apply for a job. This is not factored into the employer's consideration. = Equality
You apparently have never applied for a Government job. I can assure you it will become a factor then, and probably not in you favor...
MCarp22 wrote:AngryCorvair wrote: how is it that "equality" is automatically "good"? even when expanded to "equality of opportunity", how do we define "opportunity" and how is "equality of opportunity" automatically good?Example: Me, the white ginger boy; and someone else of a another race / gender / religion apply for a job. This is not factored into the employer's consideration. = Equality
What about the situation that regularly occurs now where a manager states "You are by far the best applicant but the Law states we have to hire the person of another race/gender/religion."
In reply to aussiesmg:
Of all of the excuses I've heard for not getting a job, that's not one I've heard yet.
I'd say that overall, this country is a pretty berkeleying cool place to live. I really hope somebody finally repeals the patriot act though.
Look, as long as you have human beings, you will have some corruption in your legislative, legal, and executive branches. That's why our nation's founders divided those branches and gave them the power of checks and balances. As long as you have a nation of people who, for the most part, want to work together in relative harmony, you will have a great nation.
There will, of course, be incredibly stupid laws that come by from time to time. I think that, generally, these come from good intentions, but they stick around for way too long.
chaparral wrote: In reply to aussiesmg: Of all of the excuses I've heard for not getting a job, that's not one I've heard yet.
This is called racial discrimination---no wait! I mean Affirmative Action. There. That sounds nicer. I forgot that racial discrimination only occurs when it's white people treating any other race unfairly. Turn it around and it's OK because it's got a nice name.
aircooled wrote:MCarp22 wrote: Example: Me, the white ginger boy; and someone else of a another race / gender / religion apply for a job. This is not factored into the employer's consideration. = EqualityYou apparently have never applied for a Government job. I can assure you it will become a factor then, and probably not in you favor...
My mom worked temporarily for a startup contracting firm. The company got "preferred status" because it was owned by a Chinese-descended woman and it had a certain ratio of women and minorities to white guys. I think there's a name for this specific type of company. Anyway, contracts went to her company before they went to any other company.
aircooled wrote:NYG95GA wrote: Though things have never been perfect. I'd choose the "Baby Boom" years 1946-1964 as the heyday of America. After WW2, people had money saved during the war (largely due to not being able to buy much of anything), and when the soldiers came home, all hell broke loose. Housing and communities sprung up almost overnight...Careful now! I believe a lot of that growth was very much subsidized (socialized in todays backwards wording world). The soldiers got their money from the government, the houses were build under government funding or support (I believe), the industry was the result of massive government spending (WWII). Of course you also have the massive Cold War government spending, which of course we have never recovered from... ...what are you, some kind of socialist?
More fuel for the fire: The maximum marginal income tax rate from 1951 through 1964 was 91-92%! Could you even begin to imagine the cries of socialism if anything similar were proposed today? People have very selective memories.
http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php#fn-5
Bobzilla wrote: But we as a society are so spoiled we don'trealize what "sacrifice" is any more.
Sacrifice is a dirty word. I find it funny how many people in their 20s want to start with what their parents worked all their lives for. Big house, two cars, vacation every year....
Growing up, I am the son a medically retired Vietnam Vet. After doing the military brat thing for the first few years of my life, my Father's debilitating health forced his retirement from the service and into 100% disabled.
I can remember many a time when all we had were the clothes on our backs and roof over our head. One winter we even had to sell the family car to pay the bills when Social Security decided to cut us off so they could reevaluate my father's disability (artificial hips don't fix themselves).
Perhaps that had a BIG effect on how I view the world. I live small, own used cars I work on myself, I NEVER use airconditioning, and I try and save as much as I can.
My sister, who is 10 years younger than me, never had to deal with that. Things were stable when she was young and my mom had returned to work to help make ends meet. She grew up spoiled and expecting everything. If only she knew.
Honestly though, I too think this is the best time to be alive and living in this country. Our technology has never been better, our standard of living is higher than ever, Medicine is finding new cures everyday, and people are living healthier longer into their lives. All these pluses more than offset the negatives.
81gtv6 wrote: In reply to NYG95GA: I think what aircooled ment was that the money was coming from the Goverment in one way or another. Rosie would not have had a job if it was not for the government needing everything from bombers to underware for our fighting men.
Ah, there's the rub. It's a common misconception that money can "come" from the government, but the truth is that the gubmint has no money of it's own. All funds are taken from taxpayers and re-distributed back to the areas our esteemed elected officials deem most important.
Sounds a lot like socialism to me; a certain amount of it works well, but parts of it chap my cheeks. Still we have it pretty good for the most part.
These are the good old days.
I've visited 18 foriegn countries so far in my life, and even though I've enjoyed them, I'm always glad to get back home.
"See what had happened was..............." IMO it's always been awesome just with crappy politicians and ratards operating the country and governments. We have a beautiful country with a plethora of different climates and landscapes to travel and visit. Despite being in a crappy economy right now we still have more opportunity than most other countries in the world, a better standard of living than almost anywhere else in the world (with the exceptions being Europe and Oz). Would you rather live in Eastern Europe? Southwest asia? Middle east? Most of Africa? I don't know, I think we have it pretty well here, E36 M3 maybe slipping, but damn it's still better than most of the world.
If only we could get some of the cooler cars from Europe and Oz sold here!!
Yeah, what they said./\ I travel a bit, to pretty nice places, no war zones or anything like that, and always come home with an appreciation for the USA. The amount of official corruption I have seen, ineffective and murderous police forces, will REALLY make you appreciate it here. I asked a friend in Trinidad "Why doesn't the Press here do some investigative reporting?" He said they were afraid to. I just do my thing and leave.
aussiesmg wrote: What about the situation that regularly occurs now where a manager states "You are by far the best applicant but the Law states we have to hire the person of another race/gender/religion."
There's a flip side to that, too. How many people who were the best qualified for a certain job have not been hired because the guy in charge of hiring didn't like [insert lesser ethnic group here]?
Unfortunately, you can't legislate that people like each other. Affirmative action addresses a real problem. Of course, like many "solutions," it treats the symptoms rather than the cause.
jg
i have lived through more decades than I care to count and this country has always been great. We have had our problems but they eventually seemed to work out. People today need two incomes because they want more things. I can remember when a lot of people didn't even own a car. When I was growing up, my mother stayed home and took care of raising 8 kids. We had a telephone and a radio. We had a car because my father was a dealer. Am I worse off today ? I don't think so.
Let me put it this way: what is the ONE country on Earth people will risk their lives and those of their families to get to? As far as I can remember, no one's ever made a raft and tried to leave America for somewhere else. Oh yeah, some folks have left to avoid taxes or prosecution for crimes but as far as I'm concerned that doesn't count.
Having said that, 1) there are problems 2) there is no other place on Earth I'd rather live. Well, maybe the Australian outback if but only if I can carry a gun to kill those creepy huge spiders. 
If there is one area I am concerned about, it is the growth of the government (federal, state and local) and the resulting intrusions into our daily lives. We haven't lost any civil or human rights, but I mean other stuff. There are a lot of people who have wormed their way into the process to try to change the behavior of others to suit their view of how things should be, and inthe process some of what I think made America great has died.
Example: when I was a kid a bunch of us rode dirt bikes all OVER the place. As long as we were respectful of private property rights we had ZERO problems, we were just kids having fun and not hurting anyone and the people around realized that. Now, just try to do that. There is no tolerance for anyone doing such a dangerous thing; laws have been passed so that some bastige in a uniform is going to tell you that you are damaging some trumped up something or other and that you need to get gone. Such bullE36 M3.
I also see a near paralyzation of many other endeavors or prices being jacked out of sight on many necessities due to excessive and mostly stupid lawsuits. No, I won't belabor the McDonald's coffee lawsuit again, even though it is a perfect example of what I am talking about. But nowadays you can't do squat without someone looking over their shoulders for a lawyer who will win a big award and kill a little more of the pioneer spirit which really made this country great. As a perfect example I could mention a recent development here in SC which is a correction of an earlier good arrangement which went bad due to lawsuit concerns and then went good again but to do so on teh int3rweb could create problems which would put us right back where we started, so the J-man's lip is zipped.
See what I mean? 
But still there's nowhere else I'd rather live.
J-Man said: If there is one area I am concerned about, it is the growth of the government (federal, state and local) and the resulting intrusions into our daily lives. We haven't lost any civil or human rights, but I mean other stuff. There are a lot of people who have wormed their way into the process to try to change the behavior of others to suit their view of how things should be, and inthe process some of what I think made America great has died.
plus eleventy billion.
Josh wrote: More fuel for the fire: The maximum marginal income tax rate from 1951 through 1964 was 91-92%! Could you even begin to imagine the cries of socialism if anything similar were proposed today? People have very selective memories. http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php#fn-5
Not correcting you, but if you look at those numbers and correct them for the current value of the dollar, the tax rates are very similar to today for those under a couple hundred thousand a year (I don't have the exact number, but you can do the math if you like). The very high rates were only for the VERY wealthy. I suspect most that qualified for that rate did not pay it because of loopholes etc (my conjecture there)
aircooled wrote:Josh wrote: More fuel for the fire: The maximum marginal income tax rate from 1951 through 1964 was 91-92%! Could you even begin to imagine the cries of socialism if anything similar were proposed today? People have very selective memories. http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php#fn-5Not correcting you, but if you look at those numbers and correct them for the current value of the dollar, the tax rates are very similar to today for those under a couple hundred thousand a year (I don't have the exact number, but you can do the math if you like). The very high rates were only for the VERY wealthy. I suspect most that qualified for that rate did not pay it because of loopholes etc (my conjecture there)
Yeah, I wasn't saying that the overall tax burden was that much greater, just that those marginal rates did exist, and they were basically a "socialist" hard cap on personal income past a certain level. You've got enough money, now give the rest to the government. Could you imagine that now? Today's CEOs, athletes, entertainers and the like all having to give most of their stratospheric incomes right back to the government? Would they even be motivated to achieve such salaries if these taxes were still in place? It's an interesting thought. I've always thought that a certain point, personal wealth is more of a scorecard than a true motivator (it's not the actual wealth that motivates, it's the drive to have a bigger number than the other guy).
aircooled wrote:MCarp22 wrote: Example: Me, the white ginger boy; and someone else of a another race / gender / religion apply for a job. This is not factored into the employer's consideration. = EqualityYou apparently have never applied for a Government job. I can assure you it will become a factor then, and probably not in you favor...
But...I'm a ginger. I have gingivitis, and thus, no soul. Shouldn't that count for something?
When was America great? From Day one until right now. We have our ups and downs, but it is a work in progress and constantly evolving and no matter what happens, it sure beats living in Antarctica!
Wowak wrote: I would say the manipulation of the currency and the erosion of civil liberties are the worst they've ever been.
Mecha-Lincoln is here for your civil liberties.
1 9 6 9
You guys have forgotten, then income tax was VOLUNTARY
One person in a middle class job could buy any car made in the US, and pay all the other bills. Our currency was backed by gold in Ft. Knox, not (it's worth $20.00 for a 20 dollar bill, just because)
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