Star Wars Episode IX - Rise of the Skywalker

"Hey Alexa, what's the definition of toxic fandom?"

After several days of consideration, I have decided that Star Wars is purely a character driven show.  The story is secondary.

So, other than Rey and Finn, none of the new characters are worth knowing.  BB8 is cool, the old woman with the bar is excellent, but...

Pilot guy has been badly underused, and Darth Emo is hateful, but not in a Vader kind of way- He's just a whiney bitch, who needs to be slapped, and sent to his room without supper.

The Rey/ Luke story was pretty good in 8.  The rest of it was poorly written, and not compelling.

I watched R1 again last night. First time since it's release. I tried to be as open minded as I could and I'm glad to say I really enjoyed it. Some of the stuff I found cheesy in theaters were my favorite parts the second time around. Very well done.

On a related note, I highly recommend a fresh viewing of TLJ. The first time it left me wanting and a few days later I readily lumped it in with ep.2 as trash-star-wars. Gave it a second chance some months back and some of what happened in that movie has become highlights of the saga for me.

On an unrelated note, I don't get the Kylo hate. I really like the character and really like Adam Driver in general. Kylo is young, powerful (powerful enough to scare Luke), ambitious, and unstable. I wouldn't have written the part any differently, and am quite looking forward to more character development, moreso than Rey actually.

Something to consider, both Anakin Skywalker and Ben Solo were trained in the force from a young age.  Both go on to develop immense power, but not the emotional maturity to wield it.  Luke and Rey were not really trained at all (A few weeks or months with Yoda for Luke, and next to nothing for Rey) as their power in the force is manifest, they are old enough to have a level of emotional and mental maturity to understand the consequences of that power if it is not used wisely, Rey even more so than Luke.  I'm looking forward to seeing how the story plays out, no mattter the reviews or the screams and lamentation of the "fans".  It's a story for chrisssake...

Streetwiseguy said:

Darth Emo is hateful, but not in a Vader kind of way- He's just a whiney bitch, who needs to be slapped, and sent to his room without supper.

That's been my complaint with the whole 7-8-(maybe 9) story arc.

In 1-2-3, we got to see the descent of Anakin from young Jedi to Darth Vader (at least within the confines of Haydn Christiansen's acting ability), and the causes of his seduction and fall.

But Darth Emo is just dumped into the bigger setting, presented with no real backstory or reasoning for why he's such a freak show.  He doesn't even have any Rebel Without A Cause bad-boy cool factor.  He's just a psychotic box of grenades rolling around the plotline and going off randomly.

In reply to Duke :

I don't see him as going off randomly at all. He is young (we dont know exactly how young) and emotional. betrayed as an adolescent by his mentor, his uncle, no less than Luke freakin Skywalker, savior of the galaxy. His new master was a freelance dark Force wielder, master political manipulator and bully. Powerful misguided youth are historically violent and ambitious. One of if not the best character in the sequel trilogy. My opinion of course.

Duke said:

Streetwiseguy said:

Darth Emo is hateful, but not in a Vader kind of way- He's just a whiney bitch, who needs to be slapped, and sent to his room without supper.

That's been my complaint with the whole 7-8-(maybe 9) story arc.

In 1-2-3, we got to see the descent of Anakin from young Jedi to Darth Vader (at least within the confines of Haydn Christiansen's acting ability), and the causes of his seduction and fall.

But Darth Emo is just dumped into the bigger setting, presented with no real backstory or reasoning for why he's such a freak show.  He doesn't even have any Rebel Without A Cause bad-boy cool factor.  He's just a psychotic box of grenades rolling around the plotline and going off randomly.

 

Also, whereas Darth Vader was threatening, Kylo Ren is a chump. Every time you turn around he's getting his ass kicked. We watch him stop a laser that was shot from behind him and he was unaware of, which was pretty awesome. And he force tortures Poe. Then Rey, with zero training shuts him out of her head.  Then Chewie does shoot him and he doesn't do the "stop the laser" trick again. Then he barely holds his own against Finn with a lightsaber. Then, Rey, who has never held a lightsaber kicks his ass. Jump to 8 and Rey repeatedly upstages him, and a hologram/astral projection of Luke makes him look like a fool. Also, the scene of him in Ep 8, where he is shirtless with his yoga pants practically pulled up to his armpits and he looks freakishly wide and thin like a ribbon man, will forever make me laugh and undermines any thoughts of seriousness.

Jerry said:

"Hey Alexa, what's the definition of terrible storytelling?"

Fixed that for you.  Also, I've seen the movie. I haven't bootlegged in 20 years, but I wasn't going to pay for this without a preview.

In reply to Javelin :

What did the mouse do to you, man?

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

Nothing against the mouse. Again, Rogue 1 is my favorite Star Wars, I loved Finn and Kylo in TFA, I saw Solo at the midnight opening even after the dumpster fire that was TLJ (and again, I loved that Rey was a nobody and the Luke story, it was the filmography, complete lack of character development, and terrible plot holes that made that movie unbearable), and I signed up for Disney+ just for Mandalorian, which has been fantastic.

JJ doesn't make very good movies when he's the writer, and with so many Lucasfilm issues including all the director firings and the sour taste from TLJ, I decided to read the spoilers for the first time. The more that leaked out, the worse it looked, and when the whole thing dropped I was pretty disheartened over the whole thing. I give SW a lot of leeway because I can appreciate just about anything I'm the SW universe, but this honestly feels like it's not even the same characters or story at all from 7/8, and not in the pleasant way like when you expect Star Trek and get GalaxyQuest or the Oroville. This is like expecting The Lord of the Rings and getting the Brave Little Toaster.

In reply to Javelin :

Off to find my VHS copy of The Brave Little Toaster...

Streetwiseguy said:

In reply to Javelin :

Off to find my VHS copy of The Brave Little Toaster...

I loved the Brave Little Toaster, and so do my kids 

Indy-Guy said:

Streetwiseguy said:

In reply to Javelin :

Off to find my VHS copy of The Brave Little Toaster...

I loved the Brave Little Toaster, and so do my kids 

There's nothing wrong with the Brave Little Toaster in isolation if you're seven. Just don't put it out as the Return of the King and then act surprised when everyone hates it.

I just saw ROP. I liked it. 

I watched TLJ again last night.  Less bad than I remembered, but still had plot holes you could drive a Kenworth through.  Random people with no backstory, or at best, a one line introduction.

I'd forgotten how badly Mr Smoke was managed, and the stuttering car thief was just brutally random.  Shiny helmet woman- nothing.

Lots of fanbois bemoan the hard left turn away from the books, but I feel like these characters must have been plucked out of the books by a writer who presumed the audience had read them all.

Back on topic, all my online friends are all gooey eyed and giggles about the new one.

Saw it last night and also enjoyed it.  Better than TLJ by far, but TFA is still my favorite of this set.  

My wife didn't enjoy it as much and her reasoning had to do with this book or that cartoon either conflicting or having already told part of the story or something like that.  Which is one of my gripes about these last three movies: I shouldn't have to complete a sheet of required reading and viewing before coming to see a movie.

RealMiniNoMore said:

I just saw ROP. I liked it. 

Rise of Piewalker?

In reply to dculberson :

Nope. 

barefootskater said:

On an unrelated note, I don't get the Kylo hate. I really like the character and really like Adam Driver in general. Kylo is young, powerful (powerful enough to scare Luke), ambitious, and unstable. I wouldn't have written the part any differently, and am quite looking forward to more character development, moreso than Rey actually.

Kylo is actually my favorite character from the new trilogy.  Everything you said, plus he idolizes his grandfather and really wants to be as powerful.  He got betrayed by his teacher & left before he completed his training, he feels E36 M3 on by his parents.  He's being played exactly as someone in that situation would be.  Plus, look at the pure acting and emotion Adam does vs Hayden Cardboard-sen.  (Who is my biggest complaint about the prequels, I'll take Jar Jar over Anakin whining to Padme anyday.)

The wife and I went to the new movie last night.  Good flick overall.  I'll likely watch it again.

Loved Rise of Skywalker. Yes, it tries to do too much, yes there's a lot of fan service. But hey, I'm a fan, and I was well serviced.

I was 10 when I saw the original release in the theater in 1977... been a fan ever since.  LOVED R1.   Hated Ep. 8 (though it's almost tolerable if you skip all of the Canto Bight BS).

Saw TROS last night.

Not a great movie, not even a great Star Wars movie, but it's watchable, and even entertaining at times.  It's really trying to do to much in too little time (trying to fix all the damage of Ep. 8), but it still manages to do more with the characters, and bring most of them to a satisfactory conclusion.  If you have any love for the characters from the Original Trilogy, you should be happy with how they're treated in this movie.

Adam Driver was excellent.  The 'big reveal' about Rey is a disappointing choice story wise, but it explains a lot.

I was very concerned I was not going to like this movie, and there's a lot I didn't like, but it wasn't bad.

It's worth seeing so you can decide for yourself...  I may go see it in the theater a second time, I haven't decided yet.

Of note was the fact that the theater was ~1/3 full.  TFA, R1, and TLJ were standing room only... 

If I could have written 7-8-9 while maintaining some of the characters:

Ben Solo/Kylo Ren would've been introduced as a complete badass. He would've killed his father, threatened Snoke, and brought Luke out of hiding. Rey would've feared Kylo. Rey and Luke would've sensed eachother as the Force needs balancing. Rey would be introduced as a character who is always surrounded by peace...who seems to end conflict between people where-ever she goes - and Kylo shatters that life. Luke and Rey would end Ep. 7 training on a far off world, while the Resistance is getting battered by Ren. 

Ep. 8 - Rey would get trained by Luke. She's not a particularly good fighter. She has doubts about the Jedi and the Sith. Regardless, they'd take on the Knights of Ren (who are Force-sensitive and similar to Inquisitors). Snoke would demand Kylo kill Rey. Kylo kills Snoke, but wants to finish to Luke too. Luke sacrifices himself to protect Rey. Kylo uses this weakness as justification for him being the new chosen one. Turns his focus to "ruling with" Rey. Rey feels that she must kill Kylo. Luke's Force-Ghost hints at another way. Deep in the Unknown Regions a man in the middle still exists and he has taught another Young Jedi his way. 

Ep. 9 - Rey searches for a Ezra. Finds him. He tells her that she has a unique ability - the only force user who can turn evil to good without death. She is the most powerful Grey Jedi, the "balance".  Her power only works when her adversary accepts death. She can't beat Kylo, he gets his power from somewhere...someone else. She'll need the help of the only other Jedi- Young Yoda. They take on Kylo/Palp and the Knights of Ren (who turns out are channeling the Dark Side from former Sith like Bane, Revan, Nihilis, Plagueis etc), enlisting help of Mandalorians, the Order of Kinobi and a sect of warriors who revere Maul (and hate the Sith). Yoda sacrifices himself to destroy Palp and beat down Kylo, letting Rey do her thing. She turns Solo back to the light. A man with a past of evil and a new heart of good. The Force is balanced, with her in the middle. 

I always thought the idea of the Grey Jedi was really cool, as was Ezra's disappearance into the Unknown Regions with Thrawn. I also really liked the idea of referencing some old Sith that ties together everything Lucas Arts has previously released (games, comics, etc). I would also like the idea of "rule of 2 breaking" by Ren and Snoke that create the Knights of Ren who turn out to be force sensitive clones of past Sith and the battle between them and all the groups they've mistreated throughout history. 

Another thought would be to remove the idea of a resurgent Empire. Snoke's armies would be destroyed at the end of Ep 7 - but Kylo/Palp and Knights of Ren would become the main threat. A small, but potentially very bad group of "New Sith." Turns out Palpatine not only found out how to channel his power into Kylo Ren, but he's also found out how to do it with Knights of Ren - the way to avoid breaking the Rule Of 2 is to not to bring Sith into life, but have them work from death. 

I likeed the idea that at the end Rey would  be "Grey" and would embody the peacemaker. She could actually keep conflict from happening by her use of the Force. That'd be cool.

I always hoped that Ezra would make an appearance in 7-9, but Disney seemed to have little interest in prior EU material.

I did think this was was interesting in the preview...

But nothing came of it in the movie.

Definitely enjoyed it more than I expected to. 
 

but not much to say now, because