Strange things I see

Stampie said:

*buys japanese car*

Mushroom crumbs on my gate. Does the squirrel know it wasn't poisonous or just YOLOing?

Form our travels yesterday, at the National Museum of the Air Force.  If you need a sign to tell you not to rotate a jet nozzle by hand, you probably can't read the sign.

In reply to kazoospec :

If that's a Kestrel,  a prequel Harrier from 1964, it makes sense.  No one had ever seen one before. 

Dieselboss15 said:

Stampie said:

 

*buys japanese car*

Meh, it was a Ford when it was built.

Six of buying a Mazda made by Ford with US sourced parts, half a dozen of buy a Chevy made in Canada or Mexico with Chinese sourced parts.

I'll toss this in here...

In reply to Stampie :

I guess you exit into another dimension? Or parallel world?

TurnerX19 said:

In reply to Stampie :

I guess you exit into another dimension? Or parallel world?

Nope. Not going down there. I know how that movie ends. 

Where the stairwell goes:

New ADA regulations require signs like this:

They are about 4"x 6", and must be mounted alongside exit doors.  I had to add them in a recent building.

The job was a 37,000 SF furniture store, complete with normal retail clutter for a well-stocked furniture store. 

I can't figure out why a Braille sign needs printed letters (there are red exit signs over the doors).  Do blind people need sighted people to read the sign to them?

I also can't figure out why a blind person would need a tiny little Braille sign telling them where the exit is.  Are they gonna gonna search 37,000 SF of cluttered building to find a Braille message less than 1 1/2" long?  
 

Oh... if you are looking for the little Braille sign they are easy to find.  They are right next to the exit doors (which are 84 SF at the front of the store).

Hmmm....

In reply to SV reX :

I mean, it does make sense to me that the English is on the sign as well just for the simple practical fact that usually people who can't read braile store, install, and inspect the signs. 

"Hey, Bobby - which stack of restroom signs was 'mens' and which was 'womens'?" "Does this sign mean 'exit' or 'fire'?"

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

A label on the back would work. 
 

Why would the printed letters need to be 3" tall?  And why English?

And why is the tiny Braille exit sign only able to be found after you are already standing at the exit door?

If it actually mattered, seems to me that an audible exit signal would be far more effective. 
 

Even the building inspector agreed with me.  He still had enforce the rules. 

In reply to SV reX :

Fun fact:  most blind people can't actually read Braille, so the word EXIT should also be in raised letters of a specified size and thickness that allows them to be read by touch.

If the EXIT part is printed flush with  the rest of the sign, they are not ADA compliant and you're going to be replacing them all if somebody notices.

In reply to Duke :

Works for me. 
 

They're not. 

See my edit above.

They were ADA compliant. 
 

You're missing the point. It's a 37,000 SF cluttered building, and you're already standing at the exit door. It's not helping ANYONE find the door. 

Blind people aren't stupid. 

Why do you need to have a 36 inch wide door in a basement or area accessed by a long flight of stairs?

To make it accessible to someone in a wheel chair......

In reply to aircooled :

Haha!

I was recently required to upgrade a bathroom to be fully handicapped accessible. 
 

On the 2nd floor. With no elevator or access other than the stairs. 

We had a hospital renovation project that required Braille signage on all of the electrical panels including the main switchgear. Not sure how many blind electricians they had on staff.

SV reX said:

In reply to aircooled :

Haha!

I was recently required to upgrade a bathroom to be fully handicapped accessible.

On the 2nd floor. With no elevator or access other than the stairs. 

People with leg braces, crutches, or other limited mobility still need extra space to maneuver, even if they can go up and down stairs.  And for somebody with bad knees or hips, grab bars make it easier to use the toilet.

Not everybody who is handicapped is stuck in a wheelchair.

SV reX said:

They were ADA compliant. 

You're missing the point. It's a 37,000 SF cluttered building, and you're already standing at the exit door. It's not helping ANYONE find the door. 

Blind people aren't stupid. 

I never said they were stupid.

And your signs are not ADA-compliant:

The 2010 ADAAG wrote:

216.4 Means of Egress. Signs for means of egress shall comply with 216.4.

216.4.1 Exit Doors. Doors at exit passageways, exit discharge, and exit stairways shall be identified by tactile signs complying with 703.1, 703.2, and 703.5.

[...]

Signs

703.1 General. Signs shall comply with 703. Where both visual and tactile characters are required, either one sign with both visual and tactile characters, or two separate signs, one with visual, and one with tactile characters, shall be provided.

703.2 Raised Characters. Raised characters shall comply with 703.2 and shall be duplicated in braille complying with 703.3. Raised characters shall be installed in accordance with 703.4.

703.2.1 Depth. Raised characters shall be 1/32 inch (0.8 mm) minimum above their background.
703.2.2 Case. Characters shall be uppercase.
703.2.3 Style. Characters shall be sans serif. Characters shall not be italic, oblique, script, highly decorative, or of other unusual forms.
703.2.4 Character Proportions. Characters shall be selected from fonts where the width of the uppercase letter “O” is 55 percent minimum and 110 percent maximum of the height of the uppercase letter “I”.
703.2.5 Character Height. Character height measured vertically from the baseline of the character shall be 5/8 inch (16 mm) minimum and 2 inches (51 mm) maximum based on the height of the uppercase letter “I”.

703.4 sets a range of acceptable locations relative to the floor and the door latch.

703.5 is for visual signage and offers some exceptions to the case and style restrictions of 703.2, but nothing gives exception to 216.4.1 which specifically states that exit signage at egress doors must be tactile and invokes 703.2 in the first place, meaning in addition to the Braille, the actual word EXIT needs to be in raised, tactile lettering as well.

I understand your point about the general environment of the building, but I disagree with your conclusion that it is pointless to give better information to people who are visually impaired or blind.  Perhaps a person can see well enough (or use a cane well enough) to not bump into all the furniture, but needs clear confirmation that door A is actually the exit as opposed to door B right next to it that leads to the bathroom.