Switching jobs, or not switching jobs. Etiquette questions

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Ok... lots to unpack and (as always) you folks approach things wonderfully and I feel like you are all little angels and devils sitting on my shoulders.  That's exactly what I need.  Voices.

So... while there are massive pros to my current job and the board loves me to death, they love me in the most superficial way.  They know I work there, they sometimes get my job title right when they introduce me to their friends, but all they know is that I get a paycheck and shows happen.  Their grasp of the amount of time, energy, and workflow that goes into it is non existent.  They know I work hard, but they are ultimately clueless.

The reality is:  If I got hit by a bus, the board would send flowers to my funeral, suggest a selection committee for next month's board meeting, spend three months developing a job listing with a job description (that, ironically, I wrote), and likely move slower than molasses and try to get someone for next fall.  In the meantime they would try to fill in with volunteers, sets would be E36 M3, people might get injured or worse, shows would close, we would lose about $60k in revenue per month because we have no physical scenery to go with the art, and the doors would close on a 97 year old institution.  The board just doesn't know, and no amount of explaining it with words can give them an accurate picture.

So, while I feel appreciated, can it really be called appreciation if they don't even know what it is I do?  An example.  I'm paid a yearly salary and since we don't do any shows in July or August, I take that time off with pay.  Those were the terms of my employment... much like a teacher.  One year when money was tight the board chair informed me (via the temp working in the office) that they could only pay me 2 weeks that summer.  I submitted a spreadsheet of my last three months that I had compiled showing an average of 58 hours/wk.  I tactfully told him if he did that, I would seek other employment and offered to start using timecards if he felt he wasn't getting his 2000 hours/yr for his money, but I also said that if that time clock happens, I will expect every penny of overtime at time and a half and showed the math where that would make me almost a 6-figure employee.  My Executive director and Artistic director backed me up and volunteered to reduce their salary so they could afford to keep me.  That is the kind of obliviousness that makes me question how much I want to work there.

The community loves me.  My coworkers appreciate me (and I them).  My Exec Director appreciates me.  The board is a flaming pile of dung that loves me but thinks I'm as replaceable as a Starbucks Barista.  The work is SO fulfilling.  The lack of oversight or nannying is wonderful.  But the board is all business... mind you, a business that doesn't know how the business works.

I just watched this exact scenario play out at another theater in town.  The production manager operated brilliantly and kept a huge touring house working smoothly for 8 years.  When he resigned suddenly (long story, but they accused him of doing something he didn't do) they thought they would just start looking for a new PM.  They are now being sued by Neko Case, Indigo Girls, and some comedian because there was no staff to even let them in the building, none of the rider was fulfilled, and they couldn't perform. The rest of the touring artists canceled or go dropped because there was no staff.  They didn't realize how much it is a moving train, and if it stops for even one day you're screwed.

The other thing is that I just got a raise in August when they brought me back after being furloughed.  I was making $35k, now I'm making just under $40k.  Nice raise, and I feel as if it sorta catches me up for my 6 years of service there, but still not what I'm worth.  As I said, I'm not money driven, but I am 48 and do need to think about retirement.  I love the job enough that I would keep working for pennies, but my logical side is telling me that it's not about what I want, it's about what I deserve and what will allow me to retire before my funeral.

Realistically,  I think you either need to find a way to save for retirement based on your current income or start slowly thinking about what you want to do when you grow up.  I don't think you need to jump ship right away but it really sounds like you're looking for more financial security than you're ever going to find where you are now.

Sometimes I think it's okay to move on as long as your happy and the new job doesn't suck.   

I was actually going to mention whether your job duties and salary would legally be considered non-exempt per the DOL guidelines for determination of exempt status.  But the getting paid for summer when not working would throw a serious wrench into that discussion.  While they would have to pay you for every hour worked, and overtime on top of 40 if you were classified as non-exempt, they wouldn't pay you for months off, unless specifically part of your PTO package.  And before any labor lawyers chime, yes, I understand the determination of exempt status is way more complicated than this.  Employers misclassifying employees as exempt was (and still is to a lesser extent) a common way for employers to get out of paying overtime.

I'm not sure getting a raise from $35k to under $40k counts as "a nice raise".  I'd call that a pittance, you can make $20/hour working as a cashier at Whole Foods. 

I'd tactfully request a substantive raise, like over $50k, justifying it with all the points you made in your most recent email.

I am with a lot of the others here. From what I have seen you are very smart, very skilled and should be able to make more than you are now without killing yourself. Having 2 months off is pretty great but you seem like you should be able to pull that salary in a range of opportunities. Doing the business case for a large raise (like 50%) is a good tactic. Also volunteering there isn't a bad idea. 

Having a job that you love and you feel loved / appreciated is extremely rare. 

Keep the old position and find a side gig if you really need exrtra cash. My .02.

rustybugkiller said:

Having a job that you love and you feel loved / appreciated is extremely rare. 

 

I agree with this... Except it isn't that rare. I can have that in a heartbeat with one caveat: It doesn't pay the bills. And guess what? Retirement is a bill you have to pay in advance. So, is this job paying the bills, including his retirement?

rustybugkiller said:

Having a job that you love and you feel loved / appreciated is extremely rare. 

Keep the old position and find a side gig if you really need exrtra cash. My .02.

I do have a side-gig, but when you work 50+ hours a week, your personal time is already limited.  I do help out with a local High School with their sets which is a nice low-impact side hustle.  I have about 20 skilled volunteer parents and teachers that I can just say "build this wagon" and they kill it.

Local HS:  Hey Curtis, wanna be our TD?
Me:  I would love to, but no time
Local HS:  It's Monday and Wednesday evenings and Saturday 9-12
Me:  Too many conflicts, sorry.
Local HS:  We can pay you $5500
Me:  See you Monday

wake74 said:

I was actually going to mention whether your job duties and salary would legally be considered non-exempt per the DOL guidelines for determination of exempt status.  But the getting paid for summer when not working would throw a serious wrench into that discussion.  While they would have to pay you for every hour worked, and overtime on top of 40 if you were classified as non-exempt, they wouldn't pay you for months off, unless specifically part of your PTO package.  And before any labor lawyers chime, yes, I understand the determination of exempt status is way more complicated than this.  Employers misclassifying employees as exempt was (and still is to a lesser extent) a common way for employers to get out of paying overtime.

There is a long story here, and complex.  I know there are different rules for taxation and what I can exempt because we are a 501(c)3.  I know I can do more mileage, and things like clothes for work are a slam dunk.  I always did my own taxes, but my first two years at the theater I used the services of one of our board members... who happens to be a non-profit tax guy.  Both times I submitted a ton of paperwork, receipts, etc.  He kept his fees super low for me, but both years it turned out that standard deductions were better.  My mortgage is not only super cheap, it was initiated during some of the lowest interest rates.  I think I'm at 3.625% and my mortgage payment is $350, so my yearly interest on the house is tiny.  Even when interest rates dipped super low during the pandemic, it wasn't a benefit for me to re-fi because fees and costs would have been more than the money I saved.

So now I do my own taxes again.  I keep track of expenses and mileage, (I live a whopping 5 miles from work) but it always works out that standard deductions still beat itemizing by a marginal amount.  A couple years ago I figured that itemizing would likely get me $50-100 more, but it was worth $50 to me to just click the "standard deduction" box and avoid the potential for an audit and all the other work of itemizing.

mtn said:

rustybugkiller said:

Having a job that you love and you feel loved / appreciated is extremely rare. 

 

I agree with this... Except it isn't that rare. I can have that in a heartbeat with one caveat: It doesn't pay the bills. And guess what? Retirement is a bill you have to pay in advance. So, is this job paying the bills, including his retirement?

Without going terribly far into personal finance, I have about $100k saved and invested in pretty safe stuff; Equities, Mutual Funds, and UITs.  It was primarily leftovers from grandparents' estates totaling around $45k in about 2003 which I invested and I've been adding chunks as I go.  Mom and Dad are in their mid 70s and going very strong, but I will likely get enough from them to be a significant portion of a retirement savings... but I can't count on it, A) because I have no idea how long they'll be around, B) no idea what the market/inheritance tax law will be like when that happens, and C) what if they get senile and give all their money to a timeshare or a cult.  It's their money and they can do with it as they please until they're dead.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

 

There is a long story here, and complex.  I know there are different rules for taxation and what I can exempt because we are a 501(c)3.  I know I can do more mileage, and things like clothes for work are a slam dunk.  I always did my own taxes, but my first two years at the theater I used the services of one of our board members... who happens to be a non-profit tax guy.  Both times I submitted a ton of paperwork, receipts, etc.  He kept his fees super low for me, but both years it turned out that standard deductions were better.  My mortgage is not only super cheap, it was initiated during some of the lowest interest rates.  I think I'm at 3.625% and my mortgage payment is $350, so my yearly interest on the house is tiny.  Even when interest rates dipped super low during the pandemic, it wasn't a benefit for me to re-fi because fees and costs would have been more than the money I saved.

So now I do my own taxes again.  I keep track of expenses and mileage, (I live a whopping 5 miles from work) but it always works out that standard deductions still beat itemizing by a marginal amount.  A couple years ago I figured that itemizing would likely get me $50-100 more, but it was worth $50 to me to just click the "standard deduction" box and avoid the potential for an audit and all the other work of itemizing.

Sorry, I should have been more clear.  I was referring to you referring to yourself as "salary".  The DOL (Department of Labor) classifies employees as Exempt (not required to pay OT) and Non-Exempt (subject to OT requirements).  It was (and still is to a lesser extent from my personal experience) a way for small companies to skirt labor laws by just classifying everyone as "salary", and implying they were Exempt for their own personal benefit.  There are law firms that seem to specialize in representing employees who were misclassified as Exempt, and getting all of their OT back pay re-imbursed.  Classification tests include job descriptions, responsibilities, pay, etc., and there are some whole careers that can be Exempted. I've been involved in some of these discussions, and reclassifications of people, but I'm by no means a Labor Law attorney.  

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

You misunderstood his comment. 
 

"Exempt" does not have anything to do with taxes. It's not income that is exempt from taxation. 
 

"Exempt" is a reference to employment status, and whether or not your employer is required to pay you overtime. If you're exempt, you are not entitled to receive any compensation for overtime hours you work. We call that "salary". 
 

Non profits are just as liable for overtime as any other company. 
 

Having said that, there are probably several items about your employment status that would make you exempt. You may fall under an "Executive Exemption". That would mean your job role is primarily management. But you have to manage 2 or more other people, and have input to their hiring and firing. Volunteers don't count, so this probably doesn't apply to you. 
 

An "Administrative Exemption" means you do office work, not manual labor. That one would not apply to you.
 

A "Professional Exemption" means your role is specialty trained. Scientists, engineers, etc. This one most likely applies to you, because your role is artistic. 
 

Basically, though many companies try to pay people as salaried employees to avoid paying overtime, if the job role does not fit one of those three categories, they are NOT exempt. Which means they SHOULD be paid overtime. 
 

You can explore it, but I have a feeling you are exempt.  

...and if you explore it, I guarantee your employment will end soon.

"Exempt" is a little confusing, because it is actually a reference to the employer, not the employee. 
 

"I, the employer, am exempt from having to pay this employee overtime because his job duties and role do not qualify him for overtime pay"

Gotcha re: salary/exempt.

I know I'm considered salaried by payroll.  My paystubs have a box labeled something like "units/hours" and that box shows "2" for the two weeks that are included in the paycheck regardless of whether or not I'm there.  I do recall a couple years ago my W2 reported that I grossed $34,999.96 and the board chair jokingly left 4 pennies on my desk which made me laugh.  My pay has been discussed as both hourly and salary, but mostly for the sake of comparison.

Datsun310Guy said:

Sometimes I think it's okay to move on as long as your happy and the new job doesn't suck.   

I think I'm probably more sensitive to "suck"y things in jobs than most.  Some people know what they deserve to be paid and they'll accept a sucky job to get the money.  I'm a bit the opposite.  I know what rewards I deserve in a job and I'll take less pay to get it.  The ideal is to have a job you love that also pays big bucks, but working for a non profit arts organization whose annual budget is about $400k isn't likely to provide that unless we have a serious board turnover.

I continually think about my friend who did the smart thing and got a degree in Accounting.  He has been working for 25 years as the head accountant for a large (and very wealthy) private school.  He likely makes $250k and absolutely detests the work.  Heck, I left a job that paid $2500/wk because the stress was making my life miserable.  I was in charge of a chain of 13 transmission repair shops, and it was great money for a 30 year old, but all I was doing was driving all over TX and being told how awful I was by an owner who put most of our profits up his nose.

Working a job that doesn't mentally or physically destroy you gives you an opportunity to enjoy a retirement. 
This is the path I'm attempting to follow now. 

In reply to rustybugkiller :

And there's my rub.  I'm a snowflake with strong boundaries.  My threshold for "doesn't physically or mentally destroy" me is probably a good bit lower than most.

Update.

I was offered the university position at $43k.  Benefits and PTO looked delicious including a matching 401k up to 15% of pay.  I talked to our new Exec Director (literally her 2nd day in the office).  Conversation went something like this: (condensed for brevity)

Me: I was offered a position at the University for $43k
ED: and [forgetting] you make how much here?
Me:  $40k
ED:  $3k raise is nothing to sneeze at. *grabs a spreadsheet of her budget for next year* I have us all slated for yearly raises because you all make E36 M3 money and I want to change that, also want to get a Festool sponsorship for more shop tools, also espresso machine, also, also, also
Me:  Not sure I can stay for the hopes and wishes of pay/shop improvements.
ED:  *disappears into her office for a moment and makes a phone call*
ED:  *overheard on the phone with the board chair*  So I can do that right now?... Ok, I'll split it up for payroll/tax reasons.
ED:  *back in my office*  Here's a check for $1000, and your next paycheck will have another $3000 on it.
Me:  

That's a highly condensed version.  The conversation actually lasted about 45 minutes and she outlined specific reasons I should stay, all of which were highly valid, cogent, pertinent, and not empty promises. They really want me around.  While she was there, I called the university and respectfully declined their offer.

Thanks for the guidance, y'all.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

That sounds great, congrats!

I'm glad that things worked out this way. It was pretty obvious from the most recent show that they found you sponge worthy.

In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

Well, this sponge will absorb any money they want to give me.

Nice Seinfeld reference! 
glad you got more guac and the satisfaction of getting the other job offer!

Its nice to know you are wanted. 

Congrats Curtis! 

Nice but that matching 15% 401k can get pretty large over time.  

Shoot - my job matches 3% and I barrel 15% away.