Teach Me: Deck Railings

I may rebuild the railing on my deck.  Well, I would like to if its fairly straightforward.  Picks of my crappy deck below.  Problem list:

• 4x6s(?) are notched and sit like 1/2way on the top of the deck.  They wobble. 
• The railings are toe-nailed into the 4x6s.  All of these are coming apart.  They wobble
• There are some support boards lag bolted into the 4x6/deck.  They are coming apart.  They wobble.
• The ballisters extend all the way down to (and beyond) the deck surface.  Sweeping/blowing leaves off the deck is a nightmare, because all of them get stuck on the ballisters.

Assuming I want to just take this off and replace it with a decent railing, can anyone point me to the correct way to build one?  Obviously I want to correct all the problems above.  Some of them are simple/straightforward, some of them are not.  Mainly... what is the right way of securing a 4x4/4x6 to the top of a deck surface?  Do they make brackets to accomplish all these things that I can secure with wood screws? That sounds a lot better to me.

I built my railings with a 2x4 top and bottom rail, and a 2x6 cap (makes for a great beverage rest).  The pickets are aluminum that I cut to size, I drilled holes for the pickets rather than using the plastic connectors, it provides more rigidity to the sections and I think it looks better.  I assembled mine in sections after I stained the wood and slipped (persuaded) them between the posts and attached them using pocket screws, 4 on each side, top and bottom for a total of 16 ea. 3" screws.  The post on the left is a 6x6 cedar post with a half lap joint about 11" deep.  I attached it to the rim joist with some 1/2" lag screws.  All other posts on my deck run into the ground or are concrete.

It looks and sounds like the wood and joints on yours have opened up from the natural wood movement.  If you are happy with the design and the wood isn't rotten, you may be able to salvage your rail by replacing the connecting hardware and new wood where needed.

In reply to SlimShady218 :

Looks like you did yours a lot like I did. Love the 2x4 with aluminum balusters. And yeah, it's a pain drilling all those holes (especially on the stair rails that are at an angle), but it really looks better. This is mine:

The posts go through to the support beams and the deck boards are cut out around them. Much stronger. Then trimmed with cedar.

First step is to put on more secure posts and then you can figure out the in between parts.  Posts should be bolted to the rim joist, but from the pics I can't tell if you have a rim joist.  Can you do some pics from ground level?

i have nothing useful to add other than i watch to much dr who. thought this was a thread about dalek's at first glance. oh well

For you guys using the aluminum balusters - are you drilling part way through the horizontal boards with a forstener flat bottom bit or something? And are the balusters screwed/glued to those header boards?

Hal said:

First step is to put on more secure posts and then you can figure out the in between parts.  Posts should be bolted to the rim joist, but from the pics I can't tell if you have a rim joist.  Can you do some pics from ground level?

I'll do some pics from ground level, but yes, this is the confusing part for me.  I have 8 posts on my deck.. I want them to be solid.  Of course this is going to snowball into a railing for the stairs as well, which is a whole new mess.  Yay....

By rim joist, You mean the last joist on either end of the deck, and across the face (furthest from the house)?  Because no, I only see a lag bolt or something attached to that.  The posts sit 1/2way on the top surface of the deck - they don't go through.

In reply to ultraclyde :

I drilled half way through with a forstener bit on my drill press, then drilled a small through hole on the bottom side to help release moisture build-up.

Chris_V - That is some fine looking carpentry work.  I like that railing design.  I laid the 2x4 horizontally, the vertical orientation didn't look right against the 6x6 posts, the proportions weren't right.

The posts are not currently constrained enough. I'd want my posts to be secured on 2 sides instead of just 1. To avoid massive reworking, You may be able to cut holes in the deck boards, fasten the posts to the backside of the rim joist, and then add a second joist that would sandwich the posts in between the 2 joists. Getting the posts more stable would reduce the likelihood of other wobbling.

Something like this:

The trick to sweeping is not having the balusters go all the way below the deck boards. Do what Chris has done and have a lower rail that sits a few inches above the deck boards.

ProDarwin said:

Hal said:

First step is to put on more secure posts and then you can figure out the in between parts.  Posts should be bolted to the rim joist, but from the pics I can't tell if you have a rim joist.  Can you do some pics from ground level?

I'll do some pics from ground level, but yes, this is the confusing part for me.  I have 8 posts on my deck.. I want them to be solid.  Of course this is going to snowball into a railing for the stairs as well, which is a whole new mess.  Yay....

By rim joist, You mean the last joist on either end of the deck, and across the face (furthest from the house)?  Because no, I only see a lag bolt or something attached to that.  The posts sit 1/2way on the top surface of the deck - they don't go through.

Yes, that is what I mean.  You could make new posts with the rabbet joint the same as what you have with the end going to the bottom of the rim joist,  And then use a couple carriage bolts (not lag screws) thru the post and rim joist.

In reply to STM317 :

I like this better, but it would require rebuilding the deck.  I would want at least the corner posts to go all the way to the ground.

^I don't think it would.  If the railing is out of the way, removing the top board in a few places is a piece of cake.  I can add the backer/whatever its called opposite the joist from the bottom side.

Next question:  How do you properly attach the top & bottom rail to the posts (I.E. not toe nail)?  Brackets?  Pocket screws?

Finally how far can a railing span without a support post?  I'm guessing this is a building code thing?  My deck is not large.  The span between posts would be under 10ft if I went corner to corner.  Eliminating the center post could be nice.

In reply to ProDarwin :

I would still use carriage bolts to hold it together.  To hold the rails to the posts use angle brackets on the underside to keep them hidden.  Pocket screws are also an option, but I like the extra support from the brackets.

I wouldn't want more than 5' between posts in case people sit on the rails.