TIL that '69 Shelby Mustang owners don't like when you point out that their rare car is rare because no one wanted the damn things when they were new.
For those not familiar, the '69 GT350s and GT500s sold so poorly that Ford got permission to issue new VINs to the leftovers under federal supervision to sell them as 1970 models.
My new (to me) truck has a 3 second delay before it kicks the cruise control off when depressing the clutch.
Which means I can get it up to the minimum cruise enable speed, hit resume then run it through the gears on cruise
NickD said:TIL that '69 Shelby Mustang owners don't like when you point out that their rare car is rare because no one wanted the damn things when they were new.
For those not familiar, the '69 GT350s and GT500s sold so poorly that Ford got permission to issue new VINs to the leftovers under federal supervision to sell them as 1970 models.
It's not exactly a bad thing, though; the same could be said about the Roadrunner Superbird. The general public is dumb, as usual, and doesn't buy the cool cars.
TIL that it's a bad idea to eat the small cashew pieces left in the bottom of the Costco cashew bag. Too salty and not many cashew pieces. Now my stomach is grumbling and feeling queasy.
Of course, I learned that lesson in the late 60's as a 7-year old as I watched my older sister down all the salt from the bottom of a pretzel bag then throw up 15 minutes later.
TIL the brain is a giant computer that can clearly recall life events from 55 years ago and make you giggle like a little kid when you relive the memory.
It was funny to me in 1969 and the memory from my sister eating the pretzel salt and hurling is still funny today. Maybe I'll call my sister tonight and see if she remembers that event.
NickD said:TIL that '69 Shelby Mustang owners don't like when you point out that their rare car is rare because no one wanted the damn things when they were new.
For those not familiar, the '69 GT350s and GT500s sold so poorly that Ford got permission to issue new VINs to the leftovers under federal supervision to sell them as 1970 models.
They also sold poorly because they were really, really expensive, and insurance for them was also really, really expensive. And they looked really weird compared to a regular Mustang.
We can look back and say that's cheap. Imagine someone from the future saying only $90k for a ZL1? That's what my new Prius cost 
Disclaimer: I don't know exactly how much a new ZL1 is. I know they were about double the cost of a Z/28 in 1969, and they looked like base model Camaros. Also, my friend's dad had a new GT500 in the 60s and sold it after six months to buy a house.
RevRico said:Today I learned Uhaul calls for references when you rent a vehicle now. To many $20 LS swaps?
He wants to rent a truck? What motor does it have in it? No, we're totally not going to swap it for the one he grenaded last week.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:NickD said:TIL that '69 Shelby Mustang owners don't like when you point out that their rare car is rare because no one wanted the damn things when they were new.
For those not familiar, the '69 GT350s and GT500s sold so poorly that Ford got permission to issue new VINs to the leftovers under federal supervision to sell them as 1970 models.
They also sold poorly because they were really, really expensive, and insurance for them was also really, really expensive. And they looked really weird compared to a regular Mustang.
We can look back and say that's cheap. Imagine someone from the future saying only $90k for a ZL1? That's what my new Prius cost
Disclaimer: I don't know exactly how much a new ZL1 is. I know they were about double the cost of a Z/28 in 1969, and they looked like base model Camaros. Also, my friend's dad had a new GT500 in the 60s and sold it after six months to buy a house.
That would be a subset of "nobody wanted the damn things"
In reply to kjchristopher :
The Venn diagram of "people who wanted it" and "people who could afford it" had insufficient crossover, and they hadn't yet invented the 84 month 30% APR auto loan.
At least, that's the way I figure there are so many super expensive new Mopars out on the road. I don't make "a lot" of money but I do make more than most of my friends, and my auto purchase budget is more like "who'd give me a loan for a $3000 beater"...
Pete. (l33t FS) said:NickD said:TIL that '69 Shelby Mustang owners don't like when you point out that their rare car is rare because no one wanted the damn things when they were new.
For those not familiar, the '69 GT350s and GT500s sold so poorly that Ford got permission to issue new VINs to the leftovers under federal supervision to sell them as 1970 models.
They also sold poorly because they were really, really expensive, and insurance for them was also really, really expensive. And they looked really weird compared to a regular Mustang.
Also worth noting that Shelby wasnt involved at all by that point, and they no longer got the top shelf stuff in terms of performance. The GT350 had a regular 4-barrel 351, and the GT500 had a 428. Meanwhile the regular Ford Mustang was available with the Boss 302 and the Boss 429. Granted the Boss 429 was an absolute dog on the street, but it was perceived as the new hotness.
In reply to NickD :
Plus, the last Shelby Mustangs (of that era) took a really good looking, aggressive design and went way too far over the top.
In my opinion.
In reply to NickD :
IIRC Ford stopped even selling the 427, which never officially made it into the Mustang anyway.
The Boss 429 was a weirdo, a NASCAR engine (no head gaskets!) that they only stuck in the Mustang to homologate it. They had to have a third party shop modify the chassis to wedge it in there. The Boss 302 was also a total dog on the street that only existed to homologate it for SCCA Trans-Am and I'm shocked that they sold as many as they did.
Ford engines had to pass a strict drivability standard involving cold starts and stuff (one pump to set the choke, turn the key and walk away) so they couldn't slink a rowdy engine through like Chrysler did by putting a manual choke on the last of the Hemis. The 428 was the best "street" engine that Ford sold that would actually fit in the cars.
The '71 Mustang was made larger in part so a (regular) 429 could fit without drama, and even then it had the same crappy exhaust ports like Clevelands had to clear Ford shock towers. Even a 351C was a tight squeeze! It was too late for the party though.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
I remember reading Connie Kalitta's rant about how terrible the Boss 429 (the "Porcupine Motor" as he called it) was in Top Fuel/Funny Car, almost entirely because of the exhaust ports that made nearly a 90-degree turn. He said unburnt nitro would pool up in that bend and light off and blow the side of the cylinder head off. He loved the 427 Cammer, other than the fragile bottom end, but the parts supply started to dry up and Ford wanted him to promote the new Boss 429 engine, and the Boss was a complete disaster.
Hot Rod Mag did a pretty interesting dyno test of bone-stock hot Ford and Chevy small blocks. I think it was Shelby 289, Boss 302, Boss 351, and '72 351 Cobra Jet versus L79 327, DZ302, 1970 LT-1 and 1972 LT-1. They found there was a pretty different mentality between Ford and Chevy. Ford, aside from the 289, was always huge intake port flow, big carburetor, really mild cam. Chevy was always so-so heads, big compression, rowdy cam. The Boss 351 was the best of the bunch, with 383hp at 6100rpm and 391 lb-ft at 4000rpm
TIL, all from GrassRootsMotorSports forums, that not only does Ford's new turbo EcoBoost motor suck along with their Mod Motor V8 which took years to develop from 2, 3, and finally 4 valves and its spark plug ejecting cylinder heads, but their old V8s sucked as well. What gives? Did they ever build a good motor? Maybe the 300 6?
In reply to VolvoHeretic :
Yes there have been several. The Kent 4 cylinder is one, and that 300 six is a terrific truck engine.
In reply to VolvoHeretic :
All engines suck.
suck - squeeze- pop - patooey!
TIL Mermaids are green.
In reply to VolvoHeretic :
The Flathead Ford, for its day, was pretty terrific. And in fact, the French military used that engine into the '90s with some improvements.
The Ford 401-477-534 Super Duty engine was a beast of an engine for over-the-road trucking.
The Windsor engine family is pretty great.
The 427 Cammer had a ton of potential, but it's short life meant that it was never realized.
The 5.0L Coyote does some damn impressive stuff. Brett Lasala did 6.40s in a street car with factory crank, block, and head castings.
Next time, check that the tire shop wrote down the phone number correctly. My bad, but if I hadn't had a hunch and checked today I'd be waiting a few more weeks for them to call me back that the new shoes for the MX5 had arrived.
In reply to NickD :
The Flattie always ran really hot because of the exhaust ports running through the block to the outside of the V. They aloso used a subpar combustion chamber for a flathead, I was reading how the inline six actually could make more power/be more efficient because it used Ricardo-designed combustion chambers while the V8 did not. Its main virtue was that it was the firstest with the mostest and hot rodders switched to better offerings as they became available, like the Caddy OHV and the Chevy.
The Windsors had plenty of issues, especially the 351Ws that suffered from lackadaisical machining. Timing cover corrosion was a big one. They all had crappy heads, which is where the Cleveland came in to replace it until suddenly its virtues became liabilities.
The Cammer was neat but it didn't take off because Bill France didn't think it was a production engine no matter how much Ford tried to trick him, up to installing them in Galaxies on the production line with him watching, so they went drag racing with it so they could do something with it. The weak bottom end and exhaust valves were a big liability there, but they sure did look cool.
The main virtue that Ford engines had was that, as crappy as they were, they were way better than GM or Mopar offerings...
I'd love for the Pontiac 303 to have become a reality. With reverse flow cooling like it'd been originally built with in the 50s. It's a shame that Pontiac decided to use really weak connecting rods in the production cars.
I have an unhealthy fascination with the Pontiac V8s and I keep thinking about a 350 or even a 301 for the RX-7 if I could find an intake manifold that fit the 301. The 301 and its smaller sibling (262?) were sufficiently different that the other engines' parts won't work.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:The Cammer was neat but it didn't take off because Bill France didn't think it was a production engine no matter how much Ford tried to trick him, up to installing them in Galaxies on the production line with him watching, so they went drag racing with it so they could do something with it. The weak bottom end and exhaust valves were a big liability there, but they sure did look cool.
The main virtue that Ford engines had was that, as crappy as they were, they were way better than GM or Mopar offerings
The Cammer probably would have had it's issues ironed out if it had lasted longer, and Ford did develop some improvements in its short lifespan (different valves, updated cam followers). Ford was ready to go to production, the problem was that Chrysler unveiled the "Doomsday" DOHC 16V Hemi, and Bill France banned OHC motors. As I recall, the A925 prototype didn't actually even run, it just used an electric motor to turn the engine over and look like it ran. Chrysler had no intention of ever building or selling it, it was strictly a stunt to make NASCAR flinch.
Yeah, when it comes to bad engines, I feel like Oldsmobile V8s are some of the worst. Weak blocks, small bores, terrible oiling systems that prioritized the lifters first and the main bearings last and had to fill the cylinder heads before they drained back, massive rod and main bearings. The fact that the "big" and "small" blocks were just different deck heights, and those 6-degree valve angles were neat, but the rest was kind of wretched.
Olds or Pontiac had a DOHC prototype in the 60s, too. Wild things were afoot.
At least Olds had different deck heights. Aside from the economy V8s late in the 70s, all Pontiacs had the same deck height from the 287 to the 455. They were big mamma jammas And those funky exhaust ports didn't help engine size.
There may have been something weird with the main bearings, too.
What's interesting is that Olds went to the windowed blocks in the 403 but this was actually kind of a good move on the face of things. They weren't making enough power to hurt a block but there are large efficiency gains to be had in managing crankcase airflow. 403ci moves on BOTH sides of the piston.
TIL that I apparently can't even tell the minor rant thread and the TIL thread apart. I could do with a break, I guess.
TIL that apparently one of my credit cards is a "World" or "World Elite" MasterCard, while the other one is a... regular? one. And because this card is a "World" MasterCard, I get a $3 refund on my Peacock subscription every month now that I'm using it instead of the other card.
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