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bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/20/17 10:01 a.m.

I saw this morning on a Facebook group a go fund me plea to raise money for a heart lung transplant. She is 19 and has a disease that is killing her. I will take that at face value.

So I am a Canadian. We would just go to the hospital and stuff would happen. Without making this political, is this honestly how it works down there? What about Obamacare? Medicaid? Anything? Does she really have to raise the million dollars (her ask) to save her own life?

I know these operations are pricey because my son had something very similar. I can't imagine being told we couldn't afford to save him.

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/20/17 10:13 a.m.

Without getting political ... yes that's how it works down here.

759NRNG
759NRNG HalfDork
7/20/17 10:16 a.m.

When your medical coverage increases over 3000%/yr and the carrier declares they are no longer writing policies , then the go fund me path is persued. I've no health insurance and still 'fined' by the gov to the tune of +$2500.00 per year to fund this BS.

Hungary Bill
Hungary Bill GRM+ Memberand UberDork
7/20/17 10:23 a.m.

(purely informational)

In a case like this a child of mine would be covered by my company's medical insurance and we would be responsible for x% of the medical cost up to $x (not so high any one of us couldn't afford it). I pay about $140 a month for insurance coverage for me, my wife, and two kids (aged 2 and 5).

Her parents might not have company provided medical insurance. In that case I hear it is way more expensive to insure a family (My uncle owns a print shop, I think he once said he paid $1200 a month for their family of four). Eventually he just took a gig at Walmart and my Aunt took over the print shop. Now they're covered by Walmart's medical insurance.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt PowerDork
7/20/17 10:29 a.m.

Yep, an operation costs money, and usually it's not paid for directly by the government. There are some government programs (Medicaid for low income, Medicare for seniors) that either cover costs directly or pay for some sort of coverage administered by a quasi-private company, but most people aren't covered by these. Most people would have some form of insurance either through work or privately purchased.

The "Affordable" Care Act provides some subsidies for people who did not get insurance through work, but the policies themselves are very expensive if you don't have a subsidy (often double or more the price of individual market policies before that act went into effect), and there are certain circumstances that can get you disqualified for the subsidies (income too high, or you are offered "affordable" insurance through work - trouble is, the definition of "affordable" is pretty weird and sometimes a policy that costs 30% of your take home pay to over the whole family might be considered "affordable" by the law).

Driven5
Driven5 Dork
7/20/17 10:41 a.m.

And without getting political...It's probably going to get much worse long before it gets any better.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
7/20/17 10:45 a.m.

Yeah... this is kind of a sensitive subject down here at the moment.

Personally, I'm not sure what I'd do if I came down with some sort of serious illness. A growing part of me would rather say, "Berk-it. I'd rather die than deal with this crap..."

carguy123
carguy123 UltimaDork
7/20/17 10:48 a.m.

Regardless of insurance there would be heavy expenses for the individual and that's probably what the go fund me account is for, unless those people didn't have any insurance at all.

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/20/17 10:56 a.m.

I am thinking that at 19 she would not have the sort of job that offers insurance and she is living independantly as an adult so not covered by her family insurance.

Slippery
Slippery GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/20/17 11:02 a.m.
bearmtnmartin wrote: I am thinking that at 19 she would not have the sort of job that offers insurance and she is living independantly as an adult so not covered by her family insurance.

I am pretty sure kids can remain on their parents policy until 26 years of age. Might even older than that.

einy
einy HalfDork
7/20/17 11:15 a.m.

In reply to Slippery:

That's what my employer's HR department told us in a recent company benefits meeting.

NEALSMO
NEALSMO UberDork
7/20/17 11:19 a.m.

RevRico
RevRico GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/20/17 11:21 a.m.

In reply to Slippery:

Maybe things have changed with Obamacare or it's set by the insurance company.

With my mom employed by one of the whole 2 insurance companies on this side of the state, it was 23 OR the end of college, whichever came first. I left college in 07(age 20), haven't had insurance since.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin PowerDork
7/20/17 11:21 a.m.
carguy123 wrote: Regardless of insurance there would be heavy expenses for the individual and that's probably what the go fund me account is for.

Don't most plans have an out of pocket max? I have a HDHP and the OOP max is pretty low.

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/20/17 11:26 a.m.
RevRico wrote: In reply to Slippery: Maybe things have changed with Obamacare or it's set by the insurance company. With my mom employed by one of the whole 2 insurance companies on this side of the state, it was 23 OR the end of college, whichever came first. I left college in 07(age 20), haven't had insurance since.

Does your lack of insurance affect lifestyle decisions? I am not covered even in the great state of Canada for injuries sustained in another country (unless I can be poured onto a plane and shipped home), but travel insurance is very cheap. A few dollars a year. So is injury insurance more affordable than sickness and disease insurance?

thedanimal
thedanimal Reader
7/20/17 11:34 a.m.

My appendix exploded earlier this month, after surgery, 5 days in the hospital and a Catscan my bill was $75K. Thankfully I have good insurance and my out of pocket will cost around $1900. I can't imagine not having insurance, I would be living out of a refrigerator box after this situation without insurance.

gearheadmb
gearheadmb Dork
7/20/17 11:35 a.m.

Pretty much all of this. I have a friend that he and his wife are considered "independent subcontractors" at their respective employers. Both 35 years old and healthy, three healthy elementary school aged kids, $1200 a month. One aspect I don't like about the whole healthcare debate is that is all about buying the insurance, never about the ridiculously high cost of medical care.

gearheadmb
gearheadmb Dork
7/20/17 11:38 a.m.
thedanimal wrote: My appendix exploded earlier this month, after surgery, 5 days in the hospital and a Catscan my bill was $75K. Thankfully I have good insurance and my out of pocket will cost around $1900. I can't imagine not having insurance, I would be living out of a refrigerator box after this situation without insurance.

My FIL had a heart attack. He got some bypasses and a helicopter ride. Three or four days in the hospital, total bill $250K.

Furious_E
Furious_E GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/20/17 11:50 a.m.
RevRico wrote: In reply to Slippery: Maybe things have changed with Obamacare or it's set by the insurance company. With my mom employed by one of the whole 2 insurance companies on this side of the state, it was 23 OR the end of college, whichever came first. I left college in 07(age 20), haven't had insurance since.

This is an Obamacare thing, you can stay on your parents until you turn 26. I've been on my own insurance plan since I started working a "real job" at 23, however, because my parent's plan stipulates that if my employer offers coverage, I have to take it through them first.

That's about as much as I'm gonna say on the subject because 1) this is quickly going to end up in patio territory and 2) I won't pretend to even begin to comprehend it fully. I guess one last point before I bow out, none of the legislation passed during the previous administration, nor that being considered by the current, has done ANYTHING to address the core issue, which is ballooning costs (which has, in fact, gotten even worse.)

RossD
RossD UltimaDork
7/20/17 11:51 a.m.

I might be wrong, but we generally just have health insurance. Sick, injury, disease; its all the same, usually.

One thing would be "preexisting condition" which was a common cop out for insurance companies to not pay the doctors, so the doctors refuse to provide services.

I have a high deductible plan. I have to pay the first $10k then the insurance pays the rest, but that's not to say that the insurance wasn't paying for certain things before then. But part of that $10k is actually reimbursed by my company, $4k worth. So I have a health savings account that I can put pretax money into and it's mine. At retirement, IIRC, I can take it out, pay tax on it and not pay a fee for not using on health care, like I would if it was before retirement age. But I can use it to pay a doctor bill or buy medicine.

curtis73
curtis73 GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
7/20/17 11:53 a.m.

As an American who lives a couple months a year in Ontario, I tend to get four sides of the story; the plusses and minuses from the US and the plusses and minuses from Canadians.

I was one of the people massively helped by the ACA. During my very horrific divorce and subsequent hospitalizations, I was unable to work, had been previously self-employed, and had $28,000 in medical bills. This was all pre-ACA. I applied for Medicaid three times, which was a grueling process of paperwork, phone calls, scrutiny, documentation on bills, expenses, assets, and humiliation. All during a time when I was in and out of the psych ward because I was having trouble coping with things like stress. Three times denied. Three times appealed. Three times denied again. The process used to go like this in PA. You apply. The assistance office has 30 days to respond. On the 29th day, you get a terse phone call that says they need 20-30 additional proofs of something that is impossible to provide in that last 24 hours; vehicle appraisal, copy of a birth certificate, independent appraisal of your home, its equity, and your debt. Things like that.

I struggled for over a year, living with my parents, chasing paperwork, in and out of the hospital and getting counseling so that I didn't down a bottle of Ambien or put a 9mm to my chin. Ya know... important reasons. All while increasing my debt.

Sidenote: in my case, I applied for medical assistance with the hospital and one of the hospital's benefactors covered most of my bills. Otherwise I would still be forced to work while I was not even close to capable of working just so my elderly parents didn't go bankrupt. Happy ending for me. The other happy ending is that I'm a well-adjusted and working member of society again.

The first year of the ACA I went to the marketplace website, entered all my normal information. At the end, it said (paraphrasing) "you qualify for medicaid. Your county assistance office has been notified and you are covered as of today." Two days later I got an insurance card in the mail. No papers, no appraisals, no appeals. Just DONE. Now, there are multiple times I have to re-enter my information and update any money I make, but the approval process was simple. When I got a job, I called and updated my income and requested to be terminated from medicaid. It was easier than turning off a faucet. They verified my identity and said OK, done. No questions about income, work, anything.

The following year, I had a part time job that didn't offer insurance. So off to the marketplace I went. I found a fantastic self-pay plan for $181 a month. Deductibles were high, but I viewed it as a major medical plan. When I get a cold, I sleep for a day and take cough syrup. This past year, my plan did go up in price significantly.

One of the things I DON'T want to do (no offense, Canadians) is to adopt Canada's structure. The wait times for healthcare up north are not something Americans will really want to tolerate. I needed an MRI on my back and it took 3 days to schedule it. My neighbor in Ontario needed one for his knee and it took 9 months. Your system works well for providing healthcare for everyone, but (in my opinion) doesn't go far enough toward combating healthcare costs and the result appears to be that its spread too thin.

We're also partly to blame down south for that in an indirect way. With our healthcare costs being 10 times greater, the opportunity for profit is massive. With your education costs being so low and subsidized along with the high quality of it, many doctors are being educated up here, then migrating south for the profits.

Two sides of the coin. I'm all for making money and profiting, but the way our democracy is set up, it does nothing to keep some things in check. You Canadians are seeing that dynamic playing out right now with Sears where the Execs get something like $9M bonuses while they lay off thousands of store associates because they're cutting corners. So make money, make profit. But when that profit begins to tank the national economy on the backs of the poor, I take exception. Then when they say "just get a job," I want to throw punches. How could I get a job when I'm in a hospital and not allowed to have shoelaces or magazines with staples in them?

So the two sides of the coin: Do we go back to the old system where tens of thousands of people die every year because they're lazy, jobless trash in the eyes of the unaware? Or do we go further and do what the ACA missed the first time and risk the temporary (but massive) growing pains?

STM317
STM317 Dork
7/20/17 11:54 a.m.
bearmtnmartin wrote: So is injury insurance more affordable than sickness and disease insurance?

I've never seen it broken down like this. It's all just lumped together as "medical". Vision, dental and prescription drug coverage are sometimes separate from "medical" for...reasons? Lately, I've been getting junk mail selling me "cancer insurance" though, so there's that.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
7/20/17 12:04 p.m.

My wife and kids have had no insurance for a very long time- can't afford it. If they'd ever gotten sick, we'd have lost everything.

My new job will include family coverage, but I had to take a $10K salary cut. That still has an annual max out of pocket of over $20K

Yeah healthcare.

dropstep
dropstep SuperDork
7/20/17 12:10 p.m.

Its a mess for sure. Obamacare has just made it more exspensive.

RevRico
RevRico GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/20/17 12:17 p.m.

In reply to bearmtnmartin:

They're the same thing here as far as I can tell, just lumped into "health insurance". I haven't left the country since before we needed passports, so I don't know if there's any sort of thing to buy for that kind of coverage.

I smoke, so that lifestyle choice lands me with a higher premium from the get go. I've adopted a slightly better diet over the years, I still don't exercise on any sort of basis, but I'm finally starting to wear some safety gear when working. Those changes aren't necessarily insurance related so much as I'm not 18 and invincible anymore and recognize it.

It comes down to money for me. I just don't have the extra $300 every month for insurance I was quoted on the exchange last year. Especially when I was looking at $4000 deductibles on top of it should something happen and I need to use it. Some months I can barely put anything into savings, let alone have anything left for a "just in case" scenario. Either way I'll still be out a bunch of money, but this way I can actually use it for more important things like the pressure tank on my water softener that needs replaced instead of maybe I fall and break my arm maybe I don't.

But, I don't really get sick for more than 48 hours, I know how to sew and use super glue if I get cut, and I just hope I don't break any bones past fingers and toes. What I do need is vision and dental insurance, and those are extra on top of the insurance premium. It's cheaper to just pay for glasses ever few years and avoid the dentist(although his cash rates are downright reasonable compared to what he charges insurance).

Having seen my dad go through cancer, kidney failure, strokes, an amputation, I decided long before the little one came along that I would never put my child through that; it's no way to grow up. And now that I do actually have a child, I still feel the same way.

So I guess the short answer is no, it doesn't affect anything I do in any big way. I'm just used to not having it as an adult, and I've never liked doctors anyway.

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