Westboro "church" funeral protests = protected speech

ReverendDexter wrote: Rights are universal,

No, they're not.

If you look around, you'll find people with less rights than you and I. In fact, you'll find people who have no rights at all.

The reason we have rights is that people in our countries were/are willing to stand up and fight for them.

These are the sort of people whose funerals are being protested at.

The protesters are a bunch of douchebags who are protected (unfortnately) by the same rights that were fought for by those soldiers.

Unfortunately they are using their right to free speech to be a bunch of shiny happy people. For that, they should be pepper-sprayed and tazed until they're unconcious.

Shawn

HiTempguy wrote: Didn't one state set up a law stating all protests had to be XXX far away from a funeral? That seems perfectly legal solution to this.

If Free Speech Zones are legit, I think they could just force WBC to do their protesting inside a designated one.

Ignorant wrote: you know.. I used to hate religions as a young athiest.. I used to rail against them with all my might. I found out it wasn't worth my time. I'd rather spend my time doing something constructive. Case in point.. I was in church with my wife at Christmastime. (Yes.. I go every week with her, because she wants me to go... So I sit and stare at the walls and now take care of the kids.) She was very pregnant and it was standing room only. I had parked the car and she was standing up with my child preparing to stand for a hour. Not one person in a packed church at Christmastime would get up voluntarily and offer this 9 month pregnant woman with 2 year old in tow, a seat. Old me would have started to rip these people apart verbally for their callousness and blatant disregard for the tenants that their religion was founded upon... Not worth my time now. I went into action and found my wife a seat, because the ushers were worthless. Sure when asked to move for the pregnant lady, they sure did; but no one volunteered. Sad folks, but there was no need for me to push this point further so I let it be and stood in the back of church for an hour waiting patiently to collect my wife and child when mass was over. There are plenty of good and bad people part of every organization everywhere... The key is to look past the bad bits and find the good; Sadly I don't think many of us have that skillset. Though, I kinda doubt if there is a bit of good left in Fred Phelps.

Your user name does not fit someone who writes such an eloquent post. Well done.

ddavidv wrote: Your user name does not fit someone who writes such an eloquent post. Well done.

Thanks. As, I've said before, the username is there to remind me, you, a fencepost, that no matter how smart we think we are, there is always something about which we are ignorant.

Shirley Phelps is on the radio right now in Atlanta.... God, she is annoying

Trans_Maro wrote:

ReverendDexter wrote: Rights are universal,

No, they're not.

I'll stick with the Declaration of Independence:

Declaration of Independence said: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...

Shawn, there is a difference between having rights, and living under an oppressive government or system.

Not having rights is different than having your rights violated.

As far as I'm concerned, all men are created equal. Sadly, some of those men choose to abuse and violate others. I would suggest these things are crimes against humanity, not differing rights for different people.

It's a pretty basic tenant of the US. Perhaps THE basic tenant.

In reply to SVreX:

Exactly.

cardiacdog wrote: They should be happy they didn't show up in my hometown when a soldier was recently buried. I know a few people who I went to high school with who might have been real offended and some folks likely would have gotten hurt or dead.

^ My thoughts upon hearing of the decision.

How many people are out there thinking "If the law and the courts won't stop this, then maybe we need to do it ourselves.'

The Westboro folks are the perfect example of Poe's Law. They're so far out there that I've heard some Christian groups saying that they have to be a plant by the Lefties to belittle religion and make Christians look bad. Likewise, I've heard atheists who want to hold them up as an example of everything that is wrong with religion in general.

Either way, the ruling was correct. They have a right to spit their venom and bile no matter how distasteful it is.

As for the rest, it is really difficult for true believers in religion and atheists to have any sort of constructive conversation, because the very nature of the two positions are antithetical and offensive to each other. That means that before any conversations even start, people on both sides are inclined to be less than civil to their counterparts.

Here is someone I admire, talking about something about something both sides should take to heart. For those of you who don't want to watch the clip, the bottom line is "Don't be a d--k".

Phil Plat's Speech at TAM

4cylndrfury wrote:

Derick Freese wrote: Alright, let's bring this back on topic for a second. http://www.timeslive.co.za/scitech/article943258.ece/Anonymous-takes-down-Westboro-Baptist-Church http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2011/02/25/westboro_baptist_church_anonymous_website If you don't like something, do something to change it, or at least have fun for a few minutes.

thats awesome, its so awesome, I literally am unable to stop smiling

Oh wow... so that portion of the internet IS good for something.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote:

Derick Freese wrote: Alright, let's bring this back on topic for a second. http://www.timeslive.co.za/scitech/article943258.ece/Anonymous-takes-down-Westboro-Baptist-Church http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2011/02/25/westboro_baptist_church_anonymous_website If you don't like something, do something to change it, or at least have fun for a few minutes.

thats awesome, its so awesome, I literally am unable to stop smiling

Oh wow... so that portion of the internet IS good for something.

I've been following this on another web board for a couple of weeks now. It was pretty awesome to see it develop. It's a BAD idea to mess with the guys at 4chan--they appear to be omnipotent.

I can be haz hacker y0!1?

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote:

Derick Freese wrote: Alright, let's bring this back on topic for a second. http://www.timeslive.co.za/scitech/article943258.ece/Anonymous-takes-down-Westboro-Baptist-Church http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2011/02/25/westboro_baptist_church_anonymous_website If you don't like something, do something to change it, or at least have fun for a few minutes.

thats awesome, its so awesome, I literally am unable to stop smiling

Oh wow... so that portion of the internet IS good for something.

HA.. In one of the Assange threads these guys were just recently vilified.

I like the idea of free-speech, non-violent solutions to the Westboro problem.

I picture 40 - 100 volunteers who show up to funerals, each one in his or her SUV, and corral them bumper to bumper like a berkeleying wagon train around the funeral, so that anyone who wishes to pass will have to climb over the car, and could be arrested for vandalism or destroying private property or whatever.

Windows on the 'outside' of the circle are down. Windows on the inside are up. Each vehicle is blaring some gay-techno pop or berkeleying slayer or something. Windshield sprayers are set to intermittently spray red kool-aid or some E36 M3.

I dunno. It's the first thing that popped into my head.

gamby wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote:

Derick Freese wrote: Alright, let's bring this back on topic for a second. http://www.timeslive.co.za/scitech/article943258.ece/Anonymous-takes-down-Westboro-Baptist-Church http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2011/02/25/westboro_baptist_church_anonymous_website If you don't like something, do something to change it, or at least have fun for a few minutes.

thats awesome, its so awesome, I literally am unable to stop smiling

Oh wow... so that portion of the internet IS good for something.

I've been following this on another web board for a couple of weeks now. It was pretty awesome to see it develop. It's a BAD idea to mess with the guys at 4chan--they appear to be omnipotent.

Shhhhhhh, you're violating rules.

poopshovel wrote: I like the idea of free-speech, non-violent solutions to the Westboro problem. I picture 40 - 100 volunteers who show up to funerals, each one in his or her SUV, and corral them bumper to bumper like a berkeleying wagon train around the funeral, so that anyone who wishes to pass will have to climb over the car, and could be arrested for vandalism or destroying private property or whatever. Windows on the 'outside' of the circle are down. Windows on the inside are up. Each vehicle is blaring some gay-techno pop or berkeleying slayer or something. Windshield sprayers are set to intermittently spray red kool-aid or some E36 M3. I dunno. It's the first thing that popped into my head.

Don't the patriot guard riders already do this?

http://www.patriotguard.org/

There was an episode of the Drew Carey show where someone was trying to annoy someone else to death. I cant remember who or why, but the premise was sound - they hooked up some loudspeakers to a powerful PA, and played Van Halens Panama on a constant loop for days at an unbelievable volume until the offending party gave up. Apply the same ideology to a system employing LRAD devices (capable of focusing sound at cripplingly loud decibel levels in a 30° cone) aimed at the protesters. They would go crazy with the volumes the device could reach, and the funeral wouldnt hear a peep.

More WIN against the Westboro Baptist Church (audio):

http://www.wiod.com/mediaplayer/?action=ondemand&item=20919037

For the record, I agree with the Supreme court ruling. The 1st Amendment rights of the WBC should not be abridged.

I am also vehemently opposed to and disgusted by both the WBC's method of protesting at dead soldier's funerals and of their vile message of homophobic bigotry.

Ignorant wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote:

Derick Freese wrote: Alright, let's bring this back on topic for a second. http://www.timeslive.co.za/scitech/article943258.ece/Anonymous-takes-down-Westboro-Baptist-Church http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2011/02/25/westboro_baptist_church_anonymous_website If you don't like something, do something to change it, or at least have fun for a few minutes.

thats awesome, its so awesome, I literally am unable to stop smiling

Oh wow... so that portion of the internet IS good for something.

HA.. In one of the Assange threads these guys were just recently vilified.

I don't like Westboro, and I'll confess I get a cheap thrill out of seeing Anonymous attack their website.

However, I am still no fan of vigilante style justice extracted through illegal means on the privately owned property of another individual or organization by nameless and faceless individuals acting outside of the laws of the land.

I don't mind the counter protests, or the Patriot Guard approaches. Completely legal and justified.

Destroying someones property because you don't like them or think they should act in a different way is wrong.

30 best WBC protest signs..

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-3o-best-anti-westboro-baptist-church-protest-s

btw.. their webpages are still down.

They can beat up and erode the second amendment, why cant they do a little of that to the first? Make a stupid "protest free zone", like the (admittedly ineffective) pistol free zones?

Joey

I won't get started on the loss of 2A rights, but all rights are rights, you can say whatever you like, I reserve the right to not listen or counter by making fun of whatever is said......counter protest ftmfw!

Like I said- I have no problem with counter protest.

Graffiti on signs and killing someone's website (both illegal) step over the line.

If you don't have your website hard to hack, then it's your fault when someone hacks it.

Sure, it may be "illegal," but it's like someone putting a sign on your front door that keeps you from opening the door before you take it down. If you don't have backups and better security, then you deserve to have your site hacked. If you call someone "pimply faced hackers" and basically say "come at me, bro," then you are basically going to get hacked, and you should consider yourself lucky if you get your site back.

4cylndrfury wrote: There was an episode of the Drew Carey show where someone was trying to annoy someone else to death. I cant remember who or why, but the premise was sound - they hooked up some loudspeakers to a powerful PA, and played Van Halens *Panama* on a constant loop for days at an unbelievable volume until the offending party gave up.

They probably chose that song on the show because it was really used for that purpose in the past

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_%28song%29#Cultural_references

When U.S. troops used high volume heavy metal music during Operation Just Cause to flush Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega from the Vatican embassy in Panama City in 1989, "Panama" was among the Van Halen tracks included in the sound barrage.[5]