What the berkeley happened to this country

I can't help but feel like this country is on a massive downward spiral. We have run up a debt of how many trillions of dollars, there is an unemployment of upwards of 10%, a massively unfunded education system, rising cost of college education, a massive number uninsured people and massive environmental problems (there is no questions that the ice caps are melting and species are going extinct at a massive rate). And instead of trying to fix these problems, we are arguing over building a temple, illegal immigration, gay marriage and other such things that really don't matter. I am not saying illegal immigration doesn't matter but the simple fact is no one is going to do anything about it. Rather then trying to work together and come to compromises for the big issues, we are being divided. And it is pissing me off.

/End Rant/

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/12/opinion/12friedman.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=homepage

This should make you feel better.

ny times said: We’re No. 1(1)! By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN Published: September 11, 2010 RECOMMEND TWITTER SIGN IN TO E-MAIL PRINT REPRINTS SHARE I want to share a couple of articles I recently came across that, I believe, speak to the core of what ails America today but is too little discussed. The first was in Newsweek under the ironic headline “We’re No. 11!” The piece, by Michael Hirsh, went on to say: “Has the United States lost its oomph as a superpower? Even President Obama isn’t immune from the gloom. ‘Americans won’t settle for No. 2!’ Obama shouted at one political rally in early August. How about No. 11? That’s where the U.S.A. ranks in Newsweek’s list of the 100 best countries in the world, not even in the top 10.” Fred R. Conrad/The New York Times Thomas L. Friedman Go to Columnist Page » The second piece, which could have been called “Why We’re No. 11,” was by the Washington Post economics columnist Robert Samuelson. Why, he asked, have we spent so much money on school reform in America and have so little to show for it in terms of scalable solutions that produce better student test scores? Maybe, he answered, it is not just because of bad teachers, weak principals or selfish unions. “The larger cause of failure is almost unmentionable: shrunken student motivation,” wrote Samuelson. “Students, after all, have to do the work. If they aren’t motivated, even capable teachers may fail. Motivation comes from many sources: curiosity and ambition; parental expectations; the desire to get into a ‘good’ college; inspiring or intimidating teachers; peer pressure. The unstated assumption of much school ‘reform’ is that if students aren’t motivated, it’s mainly the fault of schools and teachers.” Wrong, he said. “Motivation is weak because more students (of all races and economic classes, let it be added) don’t like school, don’t work hard and don’t do well. In a 2008 survey of public high school teachers, 21 percent judged student absenteeism a serious problem; 29 percent cited ‘student apathy.’ ” There is a lot to Samuelson’s point — and it is a microcosm of a larger problem we have not faced honestly as we have dug out of this recession: We had a values breakdown — a national epidemic of get-rich-quickism and something-for-nothingism. Wall Street may have been dealing the dope, but our lawmakers encouraged it. And far too many of us were happy to buy the dot-com and subprime crack for quick prosperity highs. Ask yourself: What made our Greatest Generation great? First, the problems they faced were huge, merciless and inescapable: the Depression, Nazism and Soviet Communism. Second, the Greatest Generation’s leaders were never afraid to ask Americans to sacrifice. Third, that generation was ready to sacrifice, and pull together, for the good of the country. And fourth, because they were ready to do hard things, they earned global leadership the only way you can, by saying: “Follow me.” Contrast that with the Baby Boomer Generation. Our big problems are unfolding incrementally — the decline in U.S. education, competitiveness and infrastructure, as well as oil addiction and climate change. Our generation’s leaders never dare utter the word “sacrifice.” All solutions must be painless. Which drug would you like? A stimulus from Democrats or a tax cut from Republicans? A national energy policy? Too hard. For a decade we sent our best minds not to make computer chips in Silicon Valley but to make poker chips on Wall Street, while telling ourselves we could have the American dream — a home — without saving and investing, for nothing down and nothing to pay for two years. Our leadership message to the world (except for our brave soldiers): “After you.” So much of today’s debate between the two parties, notes David Rothkopf, a Carnegie Endowment visiting scholar, “is about assigning blame rather than assuming responsibility. It’s a contest to see who can give away more at precisely the time they should be asking more of the American people.” Rothkopf and I agreed that we would get excited about U.S. politics when our national debate is between Democrats and Republicans who start by acknowledging that we can’t cut deficits without both tax increases and spending cuts — and then debate which ones and when — who acknowledge that we can’t compete unless we demand more of our students — and then debate longer school days versus school years — who acknowledge that bad parents who don’t read to their kids and do indulge them with video games are as responsible for poor test scores as bad teachers — and debate what to do about that. Who will tell the people? China and India have been catching up to America not only via cheap labor and currencies. They are catching us because they now have free markets like we do, education like we do, access to capital and technology like we do, but, most importantly, values like our Greatest Generation had. That is, a willingness to postpone gratification, invest for the future, work harder than the next guy and hold their kids to the highest expectations. In a flat world where everyone has access to everything, values matter more than ever. Right now the Hindus and Confucians have more Protestant ethics than we do, and as long as that is the case we’ll be No. 11!

They have to stop blaming the teachers. This country has created a generation of kids who are unable to ride in a car for 2 blocks without watching a DVD, play in sports where everyone gets a trophy and no one loses and school has to be "fun" in an environment where no child gets left behind.

Parents are putting their kids on mile-high pedestals where they grow up never hearing the word "no" and are denied NOTHING. When they finally reach a level of education where gosh--they aren't doing well, it's THE OVERPAID TEACHER'S FAULT.

Real learning isn't fun--it's hard work. Other competitive countries don't give a rat's ass about making learning fun.

That's a big part of our problem.

the smugness of that NYT article is underwhelming.

The NYT article has hit the nail smack-dab on the head.

gamby wrote: Real learning isn't fun--it's hard work. Other competitive countries don't give a rat's ass about making learning fun. That's a big part of our problem.

I recently read an interesting study... a bunch of kids applied for free computers to do their schoolwork on at home.

The study found that the kids who applied for the computer but didn't get it (on a purely random basis) had measurably better grades than those that received computers.

I think I can summarize (quoting Janeane Garofalo):

Our parents worked hard so we wouldn't have to. Guess what Mom & Dad, we don't!

THEY want us squabbling over minutia like temples while THEY take over.

Bread & Circuses. Killed the Romans and is killing us.

carguy123 wrote: THEY want us squabbling over minutia like temples while THEY take over. Bread & Circuses. Killed the Romans and is killing us.

who are "They"?

It seems like we romanticize a little more than we remember. Unless you were white, wealthy and healthy... the industrial revolution and the years that followed sucked pretty badly.

I might not be jumping for joy about the state of affairs as they are but... I ain't willing to trade unless I get to be the Astors.

Hey Iggy, I thought we didn't have a guilt complex?

It happened when we the people allowed it to become we the corporation.

Think this is bad? Find someone who lived through the Great Depression. You haven't see e36 m3 yet.

ignorant wrote:

carguy123 wrote: THEY want us squabbling over minutia like temples while THEY take over. Bread & Circuses. Killed the Romans and is killing us.

who are "They"?

You know - THEY! People are always talking about THEM. Like when people say, THEY want to keep us down (or is that the suits? I get them confused - is my 1960's showing?)

THEY say this and THEY say that.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: It seems like we romanticize a little more than we remember. Unless you were white, wealthy and healthy... the industrial revolution and the years that followed sucked pretty badly. I might not be jumping for joy about the state of affairs as they are but... I ain't willing to trade unless I get to be the Astors.

This.

Everything always used to be perfect, and everything is always going to hell.

I am 26, so maybe I was a generation too late... But I dunno what the hell you are all talking about with kids being given A's and playing nothing but video games for school... Where you all getting this info from?

http://4brevard.com/choice/international-test-scores.htm

Some members on the board remember and even lived in the sixties. It was a transcending time, but not necessarily in a long-term, positive way. People adopted attitudes and life-styles that disregarded traditional morals and values - and they experienced the immediate rewards for their behaviours.

A lot of those people worked really hard to change the country and they have succeeded. Not necessarily for the better, but at least for now.

generally every generation has done better than their parents. I am just old enough to be between the Baby Boomers and Generation X. The Baby Boomers sure did screw everything up for everyone that followed them. The Busters (myself) and Gen X are pretty screwed.. I can only hope Gen Y can pick up the ball and run with it.

Like was mentioned, the Boomers adopted lifestyles that disregarded traditional morals and values.. and got the immediate reward. They have been chasing that immediate reward ever since. The Greatest Generation were willing to look beyond their own gain to see that the whole country did better.. the Boomers have never been able to see beyond their end of thier noses.. and as they approach retirement age.. are still holding on and refusing to let go so the next generation can advance

mad_machine wrote: generally every generation has done better than their parents. I am just old enough to be between the Baby Boomers and Generation X. The Baby Boomers sure did screw everything up for everyone that followed them. The Busters (myself) and Gen X are pretty screwed.. I can only hope Gen Y can pick up the ball and run with it. Like was mentioned, the Boomers adopted lifestyles that disregarded traditional morals and values.. and got the immediate reward. They have been chasing that immediate reward ever since. The Greatest Generation were willing to look beyond their own gain to see that the whole country did better.. the Boomers have never been able to see beyond their end of thier noses.. and as they approach retirement age.. are still holding on and refusing to let go so the next generation can advance

The "gotta have it now, screw the future" boomers have a lot of today's burden on their resumes.

But don't ignore the politicians; the (now) long-entrenched people who mandated equality-for-all, responsiblity-for-none, we'll-take-care-of-you policies.

For example: I'll visit Fox News (zomg) for the 6:00PM Special Report, but late one night I turned-on the TV and found a panel discussion on one of their "opinion" shows. Amazingly, a former high-ranking official in Clinton's administration readily admitted that some of the "social engineering" policies (of the sixties) didn't perform as expected.

Greed of the is boomers is a fair target for blame, but well-intentioned and mis-directed/poorly-implemented social mandates are at least equal when assessing fault.

IMHO, of course!

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

Alexis de Tocqueville

MrJoshua wrote: Hey Iggy, I thought we didn't have a guilt complex?

hey man.. I never said that. I agree with you to a point that we enjoy guilt, but I think we do it secretly.. Unless you're a nutty catholic like my gramma... She loves guilt an guilt trips.. oy.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/15/interactive-infographic-of-the-worlds-best-countries.html <--- the report that friedman was talking about.

I think this statement is pretty indicative of the problem. More 18 - 25 year olds voted in the 2008 American Idol finals than did in the presidential election.

anyone else see a problem with that?

gimpstang wrote: I think this statement is pretty indicative of the problem. More 18 - 25 year olds voted in the 2008 American Idol finals than did in the presidential election. anyone else see a problem with that?

Not really. Some of the Idol contestants were considerably more compelling than the candidates for President and their impact on the rest of us is minimal. A bad choice just yields a Disney ballad with more time in the studio.

Look what the rest of us have done to ourselves by actually participating in the system. Could it have actually been worse if we just rolled dice?

My point is that only those extremes on either end are the ones really motivated to go out and vote. The rest of us (who I call the "normals") can't be bothered because Paris just got arrested again. This leaves the country in the hands of the super left or the super right.

I would like to see the gov't go towards a jury duty like system. You get a notice in the mail that you are stuck with 2 years in the house or worse six in the senate. From them a president is chosen by picking a lucky seat in the chamber. No campaigning, no lifertime jobs there, just go in do the best you can and go home hopefully without sinking the ship.