Whats with the shootings?

PHeller wrote: What I'm worried about is this: Lets say I've got a neighbor who is a maligned, angry, disgruntled, and paranoid. He's also got an arsenal. He's got a clean record, and for most of his life has been a good neighbor, but lately he's been listening to a bit too much AM Radio and thinks that his community is becoming too diverse. He regularly comes over to say hello, but lately has been going off on rants about his Latino neighbor, and the black guy across the street. He also thinks the Muslim family down the block are terrorists. One of the neighbors called the cops on his barking dog last week, and he came to my house, pounded on my door, and accused me of calling the cops. I calmed him down, assuring him that I was not home that evening, and told him that his dogs do get a bit loud some times. He was clearly very frustrated, and redirected his anger at his Latino neighbor. I watched to see if he would go to the Latino family house, but he did not. Just stormed across the street and slammed his front door. I'm concerned about the safety of my ethnicly diverse neighbors. My good neighbor has turned crazy, and I'm afraid calling the police will result in more confrontations. What do I do? Tell my neighbors to arm themselves? Tell my neighbors to leave town? Tell my neighbors to wear bullet proof vests? Tell my neighbors to hide their children? Tell my neighbors to shoot his dogs? This is the problem in America. We've got CRAZIES who get all fired about nothing, get angry, and go off and kill people. More and more people believe that their 2nd Amendment rights allows them the ability to dole out vigilante justice. They believe that they can protect their community from terrorist Arabs, drug dealing Latinos, and gangster Blacks all by themselves, and that they, the crazies, do NOTHING wrong. These same angry neighbors shoot up city council and school board meetings when BIG GOVERNMENT tells them they need to chill out. They shoot up family gatherings of ex-wives and kill their kids in fits of rage.These angry neighbors shoot up Sihk Temples and movie theaters. My fictitious neighbor could go out and buy MORE guns and MORE ammunition. He could buy MORE loud/barking and aggressive dogs, and when any of my neighbor call the police, ITS THE POLICE who risk confronting this man and his arsenal.

Wow, just wow.

aircooled wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: ....I wonder what we, as citizens could proactively do to protect ourselves? Hmmm.

Works for these guys: ....or maybe not. Let's face it. It's not the guns that will make us safe or unsafe, it will always be the people (the guns just act as a force multiplier). You can arm the "hood" as much as you want, but it still won't be safe... it's the people.

Is that a State Pen yearbook photo??????

In reply to PHeller:

LOL at an "ARSENAL".........I've seen over 600 firearms in one residence before(collector), that doesn't even become a stockpile, arsenal, or amassing yet. Most large departments have at least that, and some officers who honestly "Couldn't hit the broad side of a barn", have more psych issues, etc......its the people. Don't like it, move.....can't move? Then deal with it. I for one am tired of the complaining.

Why should I be the one to move?

There are plenty of countries in Africa that will allow you to have as many guns, tanks and grenade launchers as you want, and you'll have lower taxes to boot!

rotard wrote: Wow, just wow.

Waiting for your thoughts.

Ten points if you can think of anything besides "buy a gun."

This is what frustrates me about this topic. The answer from the pro-gun folks is a "just buy a gun."

Sure, that's easy for me to do. But what about the millions of innocent people across our nation who cant buy a gun? Who defends them?

That's what I don't get. The answer is always "you can't rely on police to protect you", ok, with the same reasoning we shouldn't have a military because we can't rely on the military to protect us. By that same reason, 10 year old children should take guns to school because they shouldn't rely on teachers to protect them.

In reply to PHeller:

Their neighbors and family.

I would love to see the actual statistics to back up the wild-ass claims.

PHeller wrote: Why should I be the one to move? There are plenty of countries in Africa that will allow you to have as many guns, tanks and grenade launchers as you want, and you'll have lower taxes to boot!

Instead of being inconsiderate and such, why should he be the one to move?

Get my point?

PHeller wrote: That's what I don't get. The answer is always "you can't rely on police to protect you", ok, with the same reasoning we shouldn't have a military because we can't rely on the military to protect us. By that same reason, 10 year old children should take guns to school because they shouldn't rely on teachers to protect them.

Your analogy is a bit...umm... "misguieded". The Military is not meant to be a peace-keeping force. That is the job of the police. The military's primary job is to protect the republic from outside invasions, and internal upheavals. There is nothing for them to "be late" on. They are a reactionary force.

In some respects, the police is also a reactionary force. Your primary protection is your own responsibility. That then falls back to your family, your community(neighbors) and then the police. When you live in rural areas all your life, you don't have time to wait for the police to arrive. Waiting 15 minutes for a County Sherrif's deputy to arrive means that whatever happened is over. So the sense of self preservation, cummunity help is stronger because it HAS to be. Why can't urban environments be the same way? Neighbors looking out for one another? Why are you waiting for the police to do all of it?

PHeller wrote: That's what I don't get. The answer is always "you can't rely on police to protect you", ok, with the same reasoning we shouldn't have a military because we can't rely on the military to protect us. By that same reason, 10 year old children should take guns to school because they shouldn't rely on teachers to protect them.

Maybe... because teachers CAN'T protect them. Teachers aren't even allowed to protect themselves.

And why should anyone give up their rights because it makes you uncomfortable? In this country we all have the same basic set of rights. The problem is that some people believe that everyone should think as they do and if they feel something is bad everyone should. There are those in this country that believe they should be allowed special privileges including being able to dictate how others should act, what they can own or even say. I may not agree with your opinion but it is your right to state your opinion just as it is my right to state mine. Neither of us is better than the other. We may disagree on the methods but we both want the same outcome a safe place to live with our families and friends where we can be free. This is one of the basic principles of this country that so many have forgotten. People have the right to be different. People have the right to act different and to think different thoughts from one another. Our job is to make things work together and not suppress the rights of our fellow citizens.

I'm not waiting for the police to do anything, I'm waiting for someone to step up and say "sir, you're a threat to those around you, we're going to take your guns". That's the community, IE the GOVERNMENT looking out for the public.

I'm not talking about denying SANE people guns. Virtually all of my friends have concealed carry permits. I have no worries about them having guns because I know they are healthy minded individuals. If they all started doing crack, I might be concerned.

My neighbor has a 9mm, I'm not worried because he's a very cool tempered dude. If he got really depressed and started talking about suicide, I might mention to his parents about his state of mind, and might consider them asking for his gun.

Is that any different than the government?

In reply to PHeller:

Because it is written in law........if you were to put the measures you want into law, in this aspect, as well as freedom of speech, etc......you won't be able to live where you wish, you won't be able to speak your mind, you won't be allowed to do what you want, etc.

This is the reason we have the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. If we allow any of that to infringe upon the few ones that are left, they won't exist. Rights are subjective to the viewpoint they are seen from.

The simple point is, if he isn't a convicted felon, and never been deemed "Mentally deficient", he is within his rights........Just as you are to complain about it.

Why does self protection need to be reactionary? Why do innocent people need to die in order for us to say "that guy was a danger to society". We put hundreds of thousands of people away for drug related charges because they are a threat to society, and yet I can spout off about all kinds of armed revolt and the disintegration of American ideals and how the country needs "taken back through force" and yet...I'm not considered (at least by some) a danger to society.

Why is the drug dealer any different from the so called revolutionary?

In reply to PHeller:

Because everyone in this country is innocent until proven guilty.......I bet you'll speed on the way home(as will I), would you like to have your license revoked on the assumption of wrong doing. This is precisely what you are recommending.....just simplified into much simpler terms.

The situations, however ficticious, are real. These happen all the time. Honestly, there is no real answer. There isn't a "correct" answer to the problem. If you go ahead and pre-judge the neighbor for what he MIGHT do, then you're just speculating. Maybe he's not going to do anything at all. Just venting and going to shoot stuff out at the range. Maybe he will go crazy and shoot someone's house up. Unfortunately we will not be able to know what MAY happen. There is no way for us to prevent POSSIBLE situations and predict POSSIBLE outcomes. The thought that doing all that via banning weapons or something like that is just not correct. As stated before, if someone's got their heart set on killing someone, they'll do it by any means necessary.

I would like to say I am very happy that we can have a conversation like this on this forum and no one has gone off half cocked.

Honestly, here's how I'd address the situation. I'd talk to the "crazy" neighbor. Get an insite on his thought processes. Sounds like he's going to vent to you anyway (in this ficticious scenerio). Use that information to let the local LEOs know they may want to frequent the area. Just an extra drive through or 2 would increase their presence and that will detour most upheval (sp). If that doesn't work, maybe having a sit down with him and then with the neighbors he's "mad" at. See if something diplomatic can happen. Something as easy as an appology could be all that's needed to difuse the situation. If that's not going to happen, then you as a citizen need to get the law enforcement officials involved. Phone call, letter, something. Sure it's a slow process, but in the scenerio, he's taking days to talk to you. If he's going to go off, the increased patrols should delay it until some further action can be taken.

On another note, any of you guys in the Texas area, I'd LOVE to go shooting with you. I just target shoot and would love to go through a tactical program. Tactical pistol, shotgun, and assault rifle would be tons of fun.

Rebelgtp, I agree, this is probably one of the most tame gun conversations I've ever had. LOL

Now, say your neighbor DID decide he was going to kill someone. You see him walking down the street loading a weapon. What do you do? Hard to say. Do you approach him as a friend, unarmed, and risk being shot? Do you approach him as a friend, armed, and risk a shoot out but have the ability to defend yourself? Do you approach him with authority and force him to stop with deadly actions if needed? It's hard to say. If you've become friends with the guy, it's gonna be hard to pull that trigger if needed. It's a damn hard decision and a damn hard place to put yourself unless you've actually been forced into it. Again, no real correct answer.

i blame chick-fil-a.

In reply to Conquest351:

Yep very tame and respectful we didn't even get into name calling.

On the tactical shooting topic it can be WAY fun. If you are ever up this way let me know (or any of you) and I will take you out and let you try out some of the fun stuff I have. If you want to try long range we even have a 1000 yard range available.

rebelgtp wrote: In reply to Conquest351: Yep very tame and respectful we didn't even get into name calling. On the tactical shooting topic it can be WAY fun. If you are ever up this way let me know (or any of you) and I will take you out and let you try out some of the fun stuff I have. If you want to try long range we even have a 1000 yard range available.

Where you at? I could build a 1,000 yd range I guess. I have 47 acres. I mainly shoot way out back against the tank dam. Nothing's going through that thing. I have an H&K G3 that I play with, but .308 ammo is getting expensive.

rebelgtp wrote: I would like to say I am very happy that we can have a conversation like this on this forum and no one has gone off half cocked.

Insert "I see what you did there" meme.

In reply to Conquest351:

I am up in Eastern Oregon so quite a ways from most GRMers that is why I said if anyone was passing through.