Appleseed said:Daylan C said:Appleseed said:I'm starting a new generation, Generation FU. Who's coming with me?
Am I permitted into this club or must I remain outside the boundaries of your lawn?
No sweat. FU has no lawn.
Well, it did, until a buncha punk kids parked their oil-leaking hoopdies on it.
...because they refer to themselves in the third person?
In reply to volvoclearinghouse :
We don't care. FU! 
This thread makes me want to start a new thread entitled "why boomers are the worst and most entitled and holier-than-thou generation."
Anyone that's worked customer service in the last 10 years would likely agree. Sorry Karen, but I AM the manager and you're not getting anything for free, no matter who you think you are.
mtn said:So... What was the point? I don't disagree with anything he said there, but I don't think that he really came to a conclusion other than maybe that people hate millenials because they're jealous of millenials?
I think some of it is jealousy. A lot of Millennials seem to have a general F-U attitude towards the status quo Boomers and Gen-X have generally followed. Burdened with more debt than previous generations and having watched many of their parents (and Gen Xers) play it safe but still get screwed over during the financial crisis, they see a "game of life" they don't want to play. So many of them are making up their own game with their own rules - risk be damned - and enjoying life and work more on their own terms.
My company and industry is currently in a situation where workers are retiring out faster than they can be replaced. But this industry is somewhat set in an "old-school-work-in-an-office" way of thinking. As that is not conducive to the way a lot of Millennials want to work, these positions go unfilled. Management asks why and they don't like the answers they get - that they need to change - so they blame it on "PITA millennials..."
In reply to Ian F :
I would agree with your first paragraph 100% and also add in we have to deal with insane housing prices and destruction of the planet, things that this generation largely feels was heavily contributed to by boomers (and to an extent gen Xers) and mostly ignored by those same boomers and gen Xers.
Life's too short to hate groups of people individually. That's why I prefer to lump people together as a whole. I don't care your age, religious leanings, political affiliations, skin tone, hair color, sex...... y'all are the same and y'all suck. Where's my island?
infinitenexus said:In reply to Ian F :
I would agree with your first paragraph 100% and also add in we have to deal with insane housing prices and destruction of the planet, things that this generation largely feels was heavily contributed to by boomers (and to an extent gen Xers) and mostly ignored by those same boomers and gen Xers.
Interesting observation. If you look back, you'll see the boomers were those flower children of the 60's and 70's who railed against all manner of perceived societal ills. Same with the Gen X-ers. But then the boomers grew up and had families. And now the X-ers are in the same boat. And while a lot of them still feel strongly about said societal ills, they're beset by more immediate and pressing issues, like aging parents, job stress, marital stress/ divorce, supporting kids, etc.
I suspect the same will happen to "the Millennials", as they enter their 40's and 50's.
One difference I have noticed though- Boomers and X-ers, back in their wild youths, largely were very anti-corporate. And not to get too political, so was the Democratic party to which they ascribed to in their youth. What I see more in Millennial culture (and the Democratic party) is a shift toward supporting companies that support their ideals, and companies trying to cater (or pander, depending on your level of cynicism) to this.
02Pilot said:pheller said:What's interesting is that I also know several Gen Xers and quite a few boomers who were at the end of their careers who said "I wish US companies were more like the Europeans, more laid back, less timeclock, more vacation." It's not just an "you grew up in a different time" but more a "times are changing and the way I used to work isn't how I want to work today."
It's easy to think in these terms when unemployment is under 4%.
Don't forget that many millennials were hitting working age right as the 'great recession' hit. They've already lived through a worse employment market than anyone back to 29.
Also on the time off, when it comes to first world developed countries America has always been decades behind other similar contries with regard to time off, benefits etc. My first job out of University in the UK back in 1990 I got five weeks paid vacation. No, it would never have increased, but you can imagine my shock when I moved here and found that people actually started on 0-5 days vacation and some people never got past two weeks paid vacation. The same is also true of maternity leave (six weeks is a joke) and more recently paternity leave.
volvoclearinghouse said:One difference I have noticed though- Boomers and X-ers, back in their wild youths, largely were very anti-corporate. And not to get too political, so was the Democratic party to which they ascribed to in their youth. What I see more in Millennial culture (and the Democratic party) is a shift toward supporting companies that support their ideals, and companies trying to cater (or pander, depending on your level of cynicism) to this.
That largely has to do with the movement of the Democratic party in general. Their strategy, in response to the Regan wave, for the last 30 years to beat the Republicans has been to become Republicans, just not as far right. The restructuring placed them as the party of working professionals (Doctors, office workers, degreed individuals) largely leaving behind their blue collar unionized base of the 60's and 70's. So you now see both parties putting up corporatists representatives rather than the kind of individuals who enacted the social changes seen 50 years ago.
The younger base looking to become politically active has latched onto this idea that corporations need to lead the way forward as the ideas of capitalism and democracy have become more and more conflated. So now they see corporations "supporting" their political ideals as modern day activism, rather than the types of marches and sit ins of the 60's and 70's. (Broad generalization there are still a large number of actual activists these days.) The problem is that people who lead organizations aren't necessarily as bound to the ideals as they are making additional profit next quarter.
Look no further than the current HK situation, stripping of a title, money and participation from an activist, and the now hypocritical plaque in front of the Blizzard offices as an example.
One thing that usually goes missing in all of these generational stereotypes is the ability to self reflect.
Every generation seemingly complains about "kids these days", and I'm sure Millenials will be no different in 30-40 years. But why are these kids the way they are? Who had the most impact on these kids? Perhaps the people that birthed them, taught them in schools, crafted legal policy and steered the economy for the bulk of the younger generation's upbringing had something to do with it?
We stand on the shoulders of those who came before us. Sometimes that's great, and sometimes it isn't. If you don't like what you see in a younger generation, it's time to look in the mirror. If your kid doesn't know how to do something, or acts a certain way, it's not society's fault, it's yours. If your kid is doing something you find odd, unsavory or even reprehensible, your fingerprints are probably on that somehow. Doesn't matter which generation it is, it's always easier to point the finger and blame somebody else than it is to consider and take ownership in the fact that you might be at least partially responsible for how it's turned out.
Ian F said:I think some of it is jealousy. A lot of Millennials seem to have a general F-U attitude towards the status quo Boomers and Gen-X have generally followed. Burdened with more debt than previous generations and having watched many of their parents (and Gen Xers) play it safe but still get screwed over during the financial crisis, they see a "game of life" they don't want to play. So many of them are making up their own game with their own rules - risk be damned - and enjoying life and work more on their own terms.
This dynamic has historical precedents. The "Lost Generation" of the 1920s blamed their parents' generation for the Great War, and created all sorts of art, literature, and music that sought to break with the past, while living it up with an "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we may die" attitude. It lasted a decade. Starting with the Beats of the mid-to-late 1950s and culminating with the Hippies in the mid-to-late 1960s, the post-war generation (not exactly the same as the Boomers) sought to overturn what it saw as a world created by its materialistic and militaristic predecessors and replace it with "turn on, tune it, drop out". This too lasted a decade.
My point being that conditions and circumstances change, and the generational behavior (to the point that one can speak in such broad terms) is dynamic. Younger generational cohorts are usually more inclined to significant and rapid change in behavior and outlook. I do not expect the 20-something Millennials of today to be nearly as vocal or committed, nor indeed as uniform in their perspective, a decade from now. By then they will have been replaced by some other insufferable youth generation, which they will invariably be complaining about.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson :
Your comments on time off reminded me that I left the Army back in early 2014, and since then I have yet to work a job that offered me ANY paid time off - and one of those jobs I worked was at NSA as a reporter, so I'm not talking crappy jobs.
Now I routinely work 50-60 hours per week, any time off for medical appointments requires me to just miss work and therefore money so even when I'm sick, I don't go to the hospital or take time off because I generally can't afford it. And I live a thrifty life and don't blow money on things, so please no one start with the "stop spending money on blah blah" horse e36m3. I'm 38, a first year millennial, and most of my friends that are millennials would describe their work/time off situations as the same. Meanwhile, we grew up with just a single parent working 40 hours a week and there was always a bit of money leftover. So taking that into consideration, I've lived practically my whole life hearing boomers and gen Xers just complain that my generation is lazy, and every time I hear them say that I just want to punch them straight in the mouth. There's a reason, a very good reason, why a lot of millennials can't stand boomers.
Also, because I keep seeing that people aren't aware of who is in what generation, here's a handy guideline (although these numbers do fluctuate a bit depending on source):
Boomers: 1946-1964
Gen X: 1965-1980
Millennials: 1981-1994
Gen Z: 1995-early 2000s
infinitenexus said:Also, because I keep seeing that people aren't aware of who is in what generation, here's a handy guideline (although these numbers do fluctuate a bit depending on source):
Boomers: 1946-1964
Gen X: 1965-1980
Millennials: 1981-1994
Gen Z: 1995-early 2000s
That's why I linked an article that has been reposted multiple times. There is even one person in the article that said millenials are 1982-2004! That's insanity.
z31maniac said:That's why I linked an article that has been reposted multiple times. There is even one person in the article that said millenials are 1982-2004! That's insanity.
A lot of older people I've dealt with seem to think everyone younger is a millennial, especially when they're talking about how lazy all the youngins are. 25? Millennial. 14? Clearly a millennial, and obviously lazy because they own an iPhone. Some people are shocked at the notion that I just turned 38 and I'm a millennial. As with many, many other things in life, I feel ignorance fuels hatred.
infinitenexus said:In reply to Adrian_Thompson :
Your comments on time off reminded me that I left the Army back in early 2014, and since then I have yet to work a job that offered me ANY paid time off - and one of those jobs I worked was at NSA as a reporter, so I'm not talking crappy jobs.
Now I routinely work 50-60 hours per week, any time off for medical appointments requires me to just miss work and therefore money so even when I'm sick, I don't go to the hospital or take time off because I generally can't afford it. And I live a thrifty life and don't blow money on things, so please no one start with the "stop spending money on blah blah" horse e36m3. I'm 38, a first year millennial, and most of my friends that are millennials would describe their work/time off situations as the same. Meanwhile, we grew up with just a single parent working 40 hours a week and there was always a bit of money leftover. So taking that into consideration, I've lived practically my whole life hearing boomers and gen Xers just complain that my generation is lazy, and every time I hear them say that I just want to punch them straight in the mouth. There's a reason, a very good reason, why a lot of millennials can't stand boomers.
I feel for you. To me that situation is just wrong, but it's unfortunately the world we live in. I was going to make a comment on the % of population that actually vote per age group to change things, but I don't want to flounder a great thread.
infinitenexus said:In reply to Ian F :
I would agree with your first paragraph 100% and also add in we have to deal with insane housing prices and destruction of the planet, things that this generation largely feels was heavily contributed to by boomers (and to an extent gen Xers) and mostly ignored by those same boomers and gen Xers.
"You" also seem to suffer from a lack of historical perspective (understandable). Destruction of the planet you say? That was VERY much a thing in the past. It mostly involved pollution, over population and even a bit of global cooling (ice age). Also, there was a thing known as the Cold War, which meant a threat of death and destruction at any moment (there were frequent reminders also). Being drafted into a war, that was a thing for while. AIDS, that was a scary thing. Heck, there was even killer bees!!!!! The economy (employment) was crap for a while, etc. etc.
There also seems to be a complete lack of appreciation for what "you" have that "they" didn't (also understandable). Medical care is far better now (one reason why it's more expensive). Cars are way better, an insane number of technological advancements. Easy access to almost any information (and of course miss-information) is extremely easy now. Entertainment is far better (maybe not necessarily a good thing). The baseline has risen significantly.
Every generation has had problems, they are just different problems.
One thing I can give the new generation as a big downside: Media and social media. Both are on Hyper now (they could be bad in the past also), which can magnify even the smallest things into absurdity. If I could wish one trait into the new generation, it would be Perspective.
Adrian, It is indeed a really unfortunate situation. And I think one of the issues with it is people that aren't millennials basically don't believe us and don't care, so I don't expect anything to change for the better. What I fear for most is my children. When you look at the past let's say 30 years and how housing prices have skyrocketed, productivity has greatly increased, consumer debt has increased, and wages have been basically stagnant, I fear for their future. I could go on and on about that.
In reply to infinitenexus :
Apart from the craziness that was the housing boom of the middle of the previous decade, and the little incident of the depression in the 30's, real housing prices really aren't up all that much over the last 120 years. In fact, if one were to do an inflation-adjusted price per square foot, I bet it would be less now than at any other point in that same period, as houses are about twice the size, on average, as they were post-WWII.
You know, I typed out three separate replies and wound up deleting them all because in the end, I know boomers just don't give a E36M3. All they seem to care about is correcting millennials, or telling us we don't know how good we have it.
volvoclearinghouse said:In reply to infinitenexus :
Apart from the craziness that was the housing boom of the middle of the previous decade, and the little incident of the depression in the 30's, real housing prices really aren't up all that much over the last 120 years. In fact, if one were to do an inflation-adjusted price per square foot, I bet it would be less now than at any other point in that same period, as houses are about twice the size, on average, as they were post-WWII.
For the record, I can't see that image. Probably because I'm at work.
The problem with your argument is you're assuming we have the same buying power as people did back then. And that's where you are massively wrong. 
Adrian_Thompson said:02Pilot said:pheller said:What's interesting is that I also know several Gen Xers and quite a few boomers who were at the end of their careers who said "I wish US companies were more like the Europeans, more laid back, less timeclock, more vacation." It's not just an "you grew up in a different time" but more a "times are changing and the way I used to work isn't how I want to work today."
It's easy to think in these terms when unemployment is under 4%.
Don't forget that many millennials were hitting working age right as the 'great recession' hit. They've already lived through a worse employment market than anyone back to 29.
Also on the time off, when it comes to first world developed countries America has always been decades behind other similar contries with regard to time off, benefits etc. My first job out of University in the UK back in 1990 I got five weeks paid vacation. No, it would never have increased, but you can imagine my shock when I moved here and found that people actually started on 0-5 days vacation and some people never got past two weeks paid vacation. The same is also true of maternity leave (six weeks is a joke) and more recently paternity leave.
I graduated from High School right in this era and I lost my dad to cancer in the recession. I still remember my High School forcing us into repeated "Compass Tests" to find out what we wanted to do with our lives nearly every quarter when some kids didn't even know if they'd have a house in a year.
Honestly now, I feel like the inter-generational infighting is just manufactured. It's the easy button instead of- as others have said better than I- self reflecting and changing to be a better person. Easier to curse the darkness than light a candle.
As a side note- after I started politically canvassing weekly the number of gloom-and-doom thoughts about politics started to dry up. Most people it seems know America has to change- the question is just, if they have the time to help make that a reality, which many don't after 2008.
You're all overlooking the fact that Gen X is *small* and fairly uninfluential. Don't blame us for a damn thing the Boomers did.
To clarify, the Boomers (and earlier generations) pretty much directed an influenced events from 1970 until... well, now.
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