Why We Hate Millennials

volvoclearinghouse said:

In reply to infinitenexus :

I bought my first home in balto county back in 2004- the peak of the housing bubble.  Still have it- it's been a rental for the past decade or so. If I were to sell it today I'd about break even- and owe a big tax bill since it hasn't been my primary residence for over 5 years. Fortunately, it is in the county, not the city. The water Bill's about 60 bucks a quarter, and the property tax is like half of that in the city.

You get double-pinged because you live in the city so your income tax is higher, too. I'd wager for every 1000 in yearly income one pays an extra $50 or more a year for the "privilege" of living in the city, between all the extra taxes. That adds up.

I won't get on a soapbox about what all it takes to "make it" these days, even as a late gen-x er. I've changed jobs multiple times, moved up and down the east coast, gotten a master's degree, and currently live hours from any family other than my wife and 2 kids. It's tough, but others have it far, far worse.

If I had only known the difference in prices when I bought this house!  It was my first house though, and a steal at $115K on 0.38 acres in a quiet neighborhood.  Just needs lots of updating (I have a build thread on it).  The tax difference is so real, and my wife and I really feel it.  Just in property taxes and utilities, we've compared to if we lived just a couple blocks to the east and were in the county, and it would save us a few thousand per year.  And car insurance is higher in the city, and basically everything.  I don't have a master's degree, just three associates and some trade education.  Kinda odd sounding, but that's how I wound up.  I know it definitely hurts me.

For the record, on a $115K house, I'm paying about $425/month in property taxes.

z31maniac said:

I always bestow the virtues of OKC. The job market is booming, housing is CHEAP, we have an NBA team, many world class museums, a new restaurant was named the best in the country last by Bon Appetit. Along with plenty of other really neat little districts with great food, bars, galleries, all that kind of thing. Of course there are negatives like July/August/September heat, the very real threat of tornados and severe storms, typically in the spring.

I bought my house two years. 1800sq ft, 3 bed, 2 bath, 2 car garage. Nice quiet neighborhood close to many conveniences. Fully renovated.........new flooring everywhere, new paint, black granite counters in kitchen/bath/bar, etc. I paid $156k for it. 

Don't mind a commute? You live up near Guthrie (OK's original capital) you can pay $250k for a brand new house on 1 acre.

 

The location makes such an enormous difference!  As I mentioned before, my location hurts me.  Baltimore is very pricey.  My wife and I are trying to finish our house so we can sell it and move down to Sebring FL, where my family lives.  The cost of living is on par or a little less than OKC - we even have a house already picked out, very similar to what you described, for the same price.  And taxes are so cheap that it's less per month than my current $115K house.  Jobs aren't as good down there but I'll be surrounded by racetracks and family, so that'll be excellent.  Even if I land a job making 5-10K less down there, our lives will be completely different, in a good way.  

volvoclearinghouse said:
 

  However, if we go single payer, all this goes away. 

Without seeing a design for the single payer, this is all raw assumption. Countries with single payer can still offer private insurance.

Also, if she is retired and on Medicare and/or a fixed income, the tax rules for that differ.

 

volvoclearinghouse said:

In reply to STM317 :

That's a really good point - the whole "generational wealth" thing.  It's something my grandparents started on, my parents have built on, and I plan on continuing.  Of course, one bad apple along the way can spoil the whole thing, but saving and defraying gratification to give your kids a better shot is one of the more noble uses of earned income. 

My hat's off to you, sir, for thinking along the same lines.  

One thing I ha ent heard mentioned yet is Social security/ Medicare tax, after retirement.  

There are 22 here at the bus company that collect social security  yet every weekly paycheck we get from the bus company deducts social security/medicare from our pay.

Even in retirement taxes are collected.  For retirement!!! Nope,  we won’t ever get more because we keep on paying in.  

Doesn't sound like much of a deal but some of these drivers are trying to get by on less than $1000 a month from social security.  

We need to pass an annual physical and if we fail we are done driving. Our oldest driver is 80 and he barely scraped  by. One more blood pressure point and he gets to try to survive on a little over $1100 a month. 

We have no benefits, retirement, job security, unemployment insurance.! If the school is out on teacher conference or holiday we don’t make any money.  Summer? If you have enough job seniority you might get a summer school job for a month and 1/2.      if you want to come in to work 40 minutes in the morning and 40 in the afternoon. But August and September no income.  

I’m OK  but many drivers really suffer through the summer months.  We have 220 drivers and maybe 20 work part of the summer.  We get nearly 40 hours a week and sometime over time( more than 40)  but to get that we need to start at 5:30 AM and get home at 6:30!PM.  We have to be available for any Charters that come in not just during the week but on weekends 

Millions lost their homes during the recession.  Now they are forced to pay too much for a crappy  little place that likely will raise the rent next year again.  Often I hear them lament they are paying more for a little studio than the mortgage was. 

When some lost their job any retirement or benefits went with it. They are hanging on  by their fingertips and know that one set back, one medical issue, and they are on the street.  These people worked their whole life.  Just on the bottom end of jobs.  

Ian F said:

My company and industry is currently in a situation where workers are retiring out faster than they can be replaced. But this industry is somewhat set in an "old-school-work-in-an-office" way of thinking.  As that is not conducive to the way a lot of Millennials want to work, these positions go unfilled. Management asks why and they don't like the answers they get - that they need to change - so they blame it on "PITA millennials.

Mine as well. We've got lots of young people joining the ranks of construction crews, but then they get attached that style of job. They don't want to wear collars and sit in a chair, they want to stay out in the field. So while we get lots of young people in at the bottom, the top of the company is still largely older folks at the end of their career. That means that our corporate culture is always 20 years behind where it needs to be.  

infinitenexus said:

z31maniac said:

I always bestow the virtues of OKC. The job market is booming, housing is CHEAP, we have an NBA team, many world class museums, a new restaurant was named the best in the country last by Bon Appetit. Along with plenty of other really neat little districts with great food, bars, galleries, all that kind of thing. Of course there are negatives like July/August/September heat, the very real threat of tornados and severe storms, typically in the spring.

I bought my house two years. 1800sq ft, 3 bed, 2 bath, 2 car garage. Nice quiet neighborhood close to many conveniences. Fully renovated.........new flooring everywhere, new paint, black granite counters in kitchen/bath/bar, etc. I paid $156k for it. 

Don't mind a commute? You live up near Guthrie (OK's original capital) you can pay $250k for a brand new house on 1 acre.

 

The location makes such an enormous difference!  As I mentioned before, my location hurts me.  Baltimore is very pricey.  My wife and I are trying to finish our house so we can sell it and move down to Sebring FL, where my family lives.  The cost of living is on par or a little less than OKC - we even have a house already picked out, very similar to what you described, for the same price.  And taxes are so cheap that it's less per month than my current $115K house.  Jobs aren't as good down there but I'll be surrounded by racetracks and family, so that'll be excellent.  Even if I land a job making 5-10K less down there, our lives will be completely different, in a good way.  

They are definitely a few things about Oklahoma that we'd like to move somewhere else, but I'd have to give up my really rad job. The company I work is based in the Bay Area. They have two pay scales, Bay Area.................literally everywhere else in the country. So I could get my team to let me move to say Austin or Denver.......but my company wouldn't just magically give me a 50% raise so I could afford to live there. At least where we are for now isn't some podunk, backwater town with nothing to do.

I'm rooting for you for it to work out!

Thanks man.  This is our math, how we've added it up:  Selling our house for a bit of profit here in Baltimore will allow us to pay off a few smaller debts and my wife's car.  Maybe my Mustang.  Then we move to Florida, near family and racetracks, and we're already eyeing a house that's $40K more but due to taxes etc will be overall a few hundred less each month.  Oh, and no heating oil to buy during the winter!  Have I mentioned how badly that sucks?  $2500 per winter just to stay warm is very harmful when you don't have a ton of spare cash to begin with.  

I think my current situation is part of the boomer/millennial thing, but after a bit of realization I think a large part of it involves city life in general, especially Baltimore.  When we make the move to Florida I fully expect to be in a situation much more similar to yours.  I'll still probably be called lazy but I won't be as on edge about it haha.

infinitenexus said:

volvoclearinghouse said:

In reply to infinitenexus :

I bought my first home in balto county back in 2004- the peak of the housing bubble.  Still have it- it's been a rental for the past decade or so. If I were to sell it today I'd about break even- and owe a big tax bill since it hasn't been my primary residence for over 5 years. Fortunately, it is in the county, not the city. The water Bill's about 60 bucks a quarter, and the property tax is like half of that in the city.

You get double-pinged because you live in the city so your income tax is higher, too. I'd wager for every 1000 in yearly income one pays an extra $50 or more a year for the "privilege" of living in the city, between all the extra taxes. That adds up.

I won't get on a soapbox about what all it takes to "make it" these days, even as a late gen-x er. I've changed jobs multiple times, moved up and down the east coast, gotten a master's degree, and currently live hours from any family other than my wife and 2 kids. It's tough, but others have it far, far worse.

If I had only known the difference in prices when I bought this house!  It was my first house though, and a steal at $115K on 0.38 acres in a quiet neighborhood.  Just needs lots of updating (I have a build thread on it).  The tax difference is so real, and my wife and I really feel it.  Just in property taxes and utilities, we've compared to if we lived just a couple blocks to the east and were in the county, and it would save us a few thousand per year.  And car insurance is higher in the city, and basically everything.  I don't have a master's degree, just three associates and some trade education.  Kinda odd sounding, but that's how I wound up.  I know it definitely hurts me.

For the record, on a $115K house, I'm paying about $425/month in property taxes.

Property taxes are unfair.  On a house worth more than 10 times that I pay less than 1&1/2 times that for property taxes . 

Not only that but we have near perfect everything, schools fire police etc. 

Now I’m the poor boy in this zip code. ( or one of them) neighboring home worth 4- 10 even 100 times my home ( yes there are some in this zip code) do not pay 4, 10, or even 100 times what I do. I’ve seen some of those property taxes  they pay a fraction of  that.   

In short like income taxes the more the property is worth, the lower percentage you pay. 

frenchyd said:

Property taxes are unfair.  On a house worth more than 10 times that I pay less than 1&1/2 times that for property taxes . 

Not only that but we have near perfect everything, schools fire police etc. 

facepalm.png

Welp. We made it 5 pages. 

He does have a point.  In Baltimore at least, property taxes are insanely high.  And with all those property taxes we're paying, we have police so corrupt that many of our news stories read like fantasy crime novels.  Our roads suck, most of the inner city schools don't have heat or A/C, and all they do is install more red light cameras to get more out of us.  This city is run very poorly, and it costs us quite a lot.  And the city just voted to further increase property taxes.

Also I've always kinda felt property taxes were a bit of a leftover from olden times.  Paying our tithes to our feudal lord, as it were.  Yes I understand that they pay for things, but they still get rather bothersome, especially when they get super high and none of the problems get better.

In reply to infinitenexus :

I meant more comparing property tax rates between areas in different parts of the country. It's not apples to apples.

For example, Austin property tax rate is right around 2x here in OKC. 

However, the state of Texas doesn't have the 5.25% income tax that Oklahoma does.

Don't worry, they are going to get their money either way. 

Funny enough, those income taxes is why a Libertarian friend of mine used to spoof his IP through Oregon to avoid them in my state. He knows he might have saved $20 total in doing this for several months, but it's the thought that counts! DONT TOUCH MY BREAD GOVERNMENT

In reply to infinitenexus :

Re; your tax bill: on the rental house I own, which is literally "stumbling distance when drunk" from the city line, in Baltimore County, my property taxes are about 100/month less than yours, while the assessed value is roughly double.

Could be worse, though- my folks live in upstate NY and pay about twice what my property taxes are...on a house assessed at half as much.

z31maniac said:

In reply to infinitenexus :

I meant more comparing property tax rates between areas in different parts of the country. It's not apples to apples.

Indeed.  Property tax rate is only a portion of the total tax revenue, from you (citizen) in an area.  And even then, total taxes need to be compared to total value received in return.

In reply to frenchyd :

I was in that situation fo nearly 10 years. It is called part time employment.  Different rules.

 the taxes are based on your pay like always..

FuzzWuzzy said:

In reply to pheller :

Plenty of us will job-hop to secure better benefits/pay/work life balance/etc etc. Personally, I'm not gonna give a company years of my life for 1-3% pay raises if the culture sucks and I can just go get a new job that offers 5-10% more. Or same pay, but the benefits aren't trash and I don't get snarky comments for not responding to emails when I'm not at work, to include nights and weekends.

I like my time off and away from work and will gladly leave a job if they deem themselves more important than my own life.

I actually worked with a dude at an investment firm doing security. He's worked there for nearly 20 years. Nice guy, great at his job, etc etc. Started out getting paid peanuts and then got around a 2% or less pay raise each year. I came on, more than half his age, making the same pay. berkeley that noise.

As a 48 year old guy who works too many hours for a salary to feed my family.. and hopefully live to see the savings I'm trying to tuck away..

This is a great reply! I'm literally looking forward to repeating the first two paragraphs next time I sit with the "managing partner" of my office. 

iceracer said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I was in that situation fo nearly 10 years. It is called part time employment.  Different rules.

 the taxes are based on your pay like always..

Like I said, I’m OK. I’m not complaining, and actually a lot of drivers are just gritting it out and hoping. Hoping nothing bad happens.  

These aren’t lazy guys, look at the hours they work, in retirement!!  Out of need though, not desire.  

Have you ever visited a state sponsored senior living home?  That’s the next stop for a number of these drivers. They lose this job and they lose where they are living.  As soon as someone dies and there is no one ahead of them, that’s where they go to wait their turn to die.  

OHSCrifle said:

FuzzWuzzy said:

In reply to pheller :

Plenty of us will job-hop to secure better benefits/pay/work life balance/etc etc. Personally, I'm not gonna give a company years of my life for 1-3% pay raises if the culture sucks and I can just go get a new job that offers 5-10% more. Or same pay, but the benefits aren't trash and I don't get snarky comments for not responding to emails when I'm not at work, to include nights and weekends.

I like my time off and away from work and will gladly leave a job if they deem themselves more important than my own life.

I actually worked with a dude at an investment firm doing security. He's worked there for nearly 20 years. Nice guy, great at his job, etc etc. Started out getting paid peanuts and then got around a 2% or less pay raise each year. I came on, more than half his age, making the same pay. berkeley that noise.

As a 48 year old guy who works too many hours for a salary to feed my family.. and hopefully live to see the savings I'm trying to tuck away..

This is a great reply! I'm literally looking forward to repeating the first two paragraphs next time I sit with the "managing partner" of my office. 

Good for you!  Companies have no loyalty to employees. Don’t reward the company with loyalty. See a better deal, take it while you can!!  

Fair warning though, once you are on the back side of 50 getting hired becomes nearly impossible.  You can have a fantastic work record, tops, perfect attendance, the right attitude, ambition, drive, skill and knowledge and no one will hire you because of your age.  Yeh,they can find out  and as long as they aren’t really stupid,  get around age discrimination. 

infinitenexus said:

He does have a point.  In Baltimore at least, property taxes are insanely high.  And with all those property taxes we're paying, we have police so corrupt that many of our news stories read like fantasy crime novels.  Our roads suck, most of the inner city schools don't have heat or A/C, and all they do is install more red light cameras to get more out of us.  This city is run very poorly, and it costs us quite a lot.  And the city just voted to further increase property taxes.

 

Also I've always kinda felt property taxes were a bit of a leftover from olden times.  Paying our tithes to our feudal lord, as it were.  Yes I understand that they pay for things, but they still get rather bothersome, especially when they get super high and none of the problems get better.

In theory more people means more income and while the rich consume more benefits they are supposed to pay for them.  The reality is it works opposite. 

Cities attract more lower income residents because as bad as entry level pay is it’s an opportunity not available in rural areas. So hard working, well educated, young people at the start of their lives grind it out paying too much for too little and squeezed every possible way. Little realizing that the very abundance of work force is what keeps their wages low. Too low to reflect the actual contribution they make.  

The tiny handful of major corporations headquartered in rural, sparsely populated areas have no trouble poaching great talent to keep them at the top.  Even they don’t have to pay talent their real value because new employees are so pleased with the reality of living in rural areas as compared to the inner city loyalty is. bought at a very cheap price indeed 

frenchyd said:

The tiny handful of major corporations headquartered in rural, sparsely populated areas have no trouble poaching great talent to keep them at the top.  Even they don’t have to pay talent their real value because new employees are so pleased with the reality of living in rural areas as compared to the inner city loyalty is. bought at a very cheap price indeed 

What madness is this?

ProDarwin said:

frenchyd said:

The tiny handful of major corporations headquartered in rural, sparsely populated areas have no trouble poaching great talent to keep them at the top.  Even they don’t have to pay talent their real value because new employees are so pleased with the reality of living in rural areas as compared to the inner city loyalty is. bought at a very cheap price indeed 

What madness is this?

It happens.  We live in a rural part of a rural county west of Baltimore county.  About 4 miles from my house a major multinational company put up a huge HQ and manufacturing facility.  Folks from PA and other nearby places swarm down there for work.  Frankly, if things ever go south for me on this consulting gig I've thought about applying there myself.  

ProDarwin said:

frenchyd said:

The tiny handful of major corporations headquartered in rural, sparsely populated areas have no trouble poaching great talent to keep them at the top.  Even they don’t have to pay talent their real value because new employees are so pleased with the reality of living in rural areas as compared to the inner city loyalty is. bought at a very cheap price indeed 

What madness is this?

Dr. Peter Venkman : This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.

Mayor : What do you mean, "biblical"?

Dr. Raymond Stantz : What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.

Dr. Peter Venkman : Exactly.

Dr. Raymond Stantz : Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!

Dr. Egon Spengler : Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...

Winston Zeddemore : The dead rising from the grave!

Dr. Peter Venkman : Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

ProDarwin said:

frenchyd said:

The tiny handful of major corporations headquartered in rural, sparsely populated areas have no trouble poaching great talent to keep them at the top.  Even they don’t have to pay talent their real value because new employees are so pleased with the reality of living in rural areas as compared to the inner city loyalty is. bought at a very cheap price indeed 

What madness is this?

Uhh.... Yes, they do. To the point that Caterpillar had to move their HQ to Chicago. State Farm has had a hard time keeping talent, because you can't convince anyone who isn't from Bloomington or who didn't go to school at Illinois State that they want to move to Bloomington. It is a big reason why they've moved to a hub system with major operations in Dallas, Atlanta, and Phoenix. 

Are we allowed to touch on corporate welfare? By allowing a ridiculously low minimum wage we are forcing tens of millions of fully employed people to be paid less than a living wage for 40+ hours a week.  The result is they need government assistance to eat?  Many of these same companies pay their top handful of execs cumulatively billions of dollars.  That's something that hits entry level (read accessible to the young)  positions particularly hard as they are just starting out.  

Again, if this is too close to politics I'll remove it.  

Adrian_Thompson said:

Are we allowed to touch on corporate welfare? By allowing a ridiculously low minimum wage we are forcing tens of millions of fully employed people to be paid less than a living wage for 40+ hours a week.  The result is they need government assistance to eat?  Many of these same companies pay their top handful of execs cumulatively billions of dollars.  That's something that hits entry level (read accessible to the young)  positions particularly hard as they are just starting out.  

 

Again, if this is too close to politics I'll remove it.  

[politics warning]

And on the other end of it, why should we have a minimum wage as high as it is when you consider that everything we buy is made in China and a kid was paid $4 for the entire day to make it? The Trump Tariffs I believe are a GOOD thing, but unfortunately they were implemented by a ham-fisted toddler of a Cheeto. 

[end of the political statement]

The executive pay has gotten out of hand for sure. Especially as I've gotten further in my career; I've noticed that while the executives are really, really good, there are also really, really good people behind them that could step up if necessary. Why not spread some of that ridiculous wealth to the lower levels? And I don't support putting income limits in, that is simply unamerican, but it is also IMHO unamerican to not share the wealth within a company. That Gravity Payments guy? I think he gets it. He's good, really good, but he's helping out his people - and building an extremely loyal team that will go to bat for him and do their best for him.