Well, I dearly love a good service writer. And that's not necessarily one who tries to diagnose the problem for me, but one who can understand the customer and write me a service ticket I can work with.
Telling me the brakes crunch like the bones of small children can very much help me chase down the problem, as opposed to vague things like "brake problem".
Maybe I'm weird, but I also tend to prefer female customers. They don't try to diagnose the problem for me, they tend to very accurately describe it. Like saying there's a squeak under the dashboard sometimes when they press the brake pedal that sounds like an old screen door opening. Now that's useful! And a good service writer will pass that along to the mechanic.
foxtrapper wrote:
Maybe I'm weird, but I also tend to prefer female customers. They don't try to diagnose the problem for me, they tend to very accurately describe it. Like saying there's a squeak under the dashboard sometimes when they press the brake pedal that sounds like an old screen door opening. Now that's useful! And a good service writer will pass that along to the mechanic.
In an industry that's perceived that we like females because they're easy targets, you hit the nail on the head. Many females have no ego when it comes to the goings on in the car, thus don't act like they know what's going on already before the diagnostics ever started.
"Sorry, this must sound so dumb" never sounds dumb at all.
I've gotten anything from the classic: "check brakes" to "customer states loud noise while driving" (that one was a giant crack in the exhaust mani of a 3.3 xterra driven by a VERY cute girl)
My favorite was from the self-proclaimed "best service writer ever ever ever" at Subaru:
are you ready?
"customer states noise"
yeah.
After dealing with E36 M3 like that from him for the past two months, I just went out and went through the squeak and rattle worksheet with the customer.
He got kind of mad at me for that, saying that doing that was his job. Yeah? well why the berkeley didn't you do it, then?
I like folks who can't spell..
"Car makes a banjing noise"
I've heard banging noises but I've never heard a car "banj"
Shawn
neckromacr wrote:
foxtrapper wrote:
Maybe I'm weird, but I also tend to prefer female customers. They don't try to diagnose the problem for me, they tend to very accurately describe it. Like saying there's a squeak under the dashboard sometimes when they press the brake pedal that sounds like an old screen door opening. Now that's useful! And a good service writer will pass that along to the mechanic.
In an industry that's perceived that we like females because they're easy targets, you hit the nail on the head. Many females have no ego when it comes to the goings on in the car, thus don't act like they know what's going on already before the diagnostics ever started.
"Sorry, this must sound so dumb" never sounds dumb at all.
Love female customers, although hearing from first timers how mechanics always rip off women gets old after a while. That goes away pretty quickly after they get treated like normal humans around our place.
MadScientistMatt wrote:
Knurled wrote:
My favorite is the Mitsubishi Precis with "A/C inop, worked fine three months ago." Three months ago it was 50F every day. The car was a non A/C car.
The way that Mitsubishi left the A/C switch label in place on non A/C Precises does at least make the customer's confusion a bit more understandable.
Wanna mess with a NA Miata owner without AC? Pull the HVAC fan knob off. Push the shaft in like it's a button. A little blue AC light will light up just below the knob. Put the knob back on.
I've read those "UPS pilot reports" before. Only it was in a book about Qantas published in the 80's. I suspect they've been around for a long, long time...
neckromacr wrote:
foxtrapper wrote:
Maybe I'm weird, but I also tend to prefer female customers. They don't try to diagnose the problem for me, they tend to very accurately describe it. Like saying there's a squeak under the dashboard sometimes when they press the brake pedal that sounds like an old screen door opening. Now that's useful! And a good service writer will pass that along to the mechanic.
In an industry that's perceived that we like females because they're easy targets, you hit the nail on the head. Many females have no ego when it comes to the goings on in the car, thus don't act like they know what's going on already before the diagnostics ever started.
"Sorry, this must sound so dumb" never sounds dumb at all.
QFT. Women tend to think they are being dumb when describing their car's problem when the opposite is true. A lot of guys come in with their egos all abristle, I guess they think that if they don't know what's wrong with their car that means their goober is small or something. I once had a guy demand we replace his transmission (at his expense!) and refused to allow the tech to diagnose the problem. We of course diagnosed it anway; bad spark plug wires causing it to jerk under load.
I cannot count the number of times someone (both male and female) have brought us a car with invoices from those chain tuneup shops etc where they have spent big $$$ and still have the same problem. We wind up diagnosing and fixing the problem for a good bit less than the customer paid elsewhere. The most recent was a Dodge Stratus which had the transmission overhauled at a large chain (which shall remain nameless but rhymes with Bamco); the actual problem was a bad alternator causing field wire feedback into the PCM. Repair cost $385.00.
That's where a good technician comes in; when a service advisor gathers the correct information and a good technician uses that information and the tools at his disposal to correctly daignose/repair a problem it's a beautiful thing. 
Question - Why is there an insistence at dealerships that I NOT be able to talk to the guy spinning wrenches? That's at least 50% of the reason I don't do dealerships.
logdog wrote:
We can all agree service managers are the worst though, right?
As an ex-service manager, I can tell you that is one of the worst jobs in the business. Used to be the service manager was a tech who moved to service advisor and then moved to service manager, the big thing was knowledge of repairs.
Now it's a pencil pusher number chaser job with a HUGE dose of babysitting thrown in and a VERY short 'half life'. I know for a fact if I am ever gain approached to become a service manager I will respectfully decline. If I'm told 'take it or be gone', well gone it is.
DILYSI Dave wrote:
Question - Why is there an insistence at dealerships that I NOT be able to talk to the guy spinning wrenches? That's at least 50% of the reason I don't do dealerships.
That varies from shop to shop. Around here it's perfectly acceptable. Some techs refuse to talk to a customer, which is one reason the service advisor position exists.
DILYSI Dave wrote:
Question - Why is there an insistence at dealerships that I NOT be able to talk to the guy spinning wrenches? That's at least 50% of the reason I don't do dealerships.
As a tech, I talk to customers all the time. Sometimes it's while I go on a test drive with them to verify a complaint, other times it's just to answer questions.
The problem is that our industry insists on only paying us on a commission basis. If I'm not turning wrenches and completing a job, I'm not getting paid. So I really try not to sit and chat with a customer for a half hour while he/she asks me every automotive question they have ever had. I also don't know how knowledgeable they are on things mechanical, so I don't always have time to explain the complete inner workings of an engine or the logic that an ECU uses to set a code. Put me on salary or hourly pay and I'll pull up a chair and have a cup of coffee with you or diagnose a car for free, etc...
As Curmudgeon stated, there was a day that a service writer was an ex-tech. This makes it easier for me to explain problems to them and also easier for them to explain it to the customer. I hate when I have to explain the inner workings of an engine or the ECU logic to them also. Nowadays they are just a salesman
As a tech who DOES talk to people all day (I don't spin wrenches for money anymore), it's a massive, massive time suck. Sometimes it would save you some time. But then a retired guy would wander in and start rambling on about the 'Cuda he had in 1978, etc.
The guys who actual work on cars at FM don't get near a phone. They'd never get anything done otherwise.
Keith Tanner wrote:
The guys who actual work on cars at FM don't get near a phone. They'd never get anything done otherwise.
Which is the other (really big) reason for service advisors.
Let's face facts: a service department of any sort is there to generate income. The average flat rate in the car industry is around $90 an hour, both warranty and customer pay. So when a tech is on the phone with someone who is basically looking for free help fixing their car instead of turning wrenches or doing computer diagnostics etc that means his stall is a $90 an hour parking lot.
Keep doing that long enough and you can't pay the bills.
Good discussion guys.
As a service advisor and a non tech, I sure do know a lot about cars. I can talk the talk, but the wrench spinning scares me honestly. I don't have that much confidence in myself. That's another discussion. I will take a customer back to talk to the tech VERY rarely. Same reason mentioned, huge time suck and distraction to the tech. I won't even let my customers back there if someone is working on their car. Sorry, if the tech gets frustrated and calls your car a pile of E36 M3, don't get butthurt, he's venting. All cars are pieces of E36 M3 to him. I've had techs who would throw stuff, not letting a customer out there. EVERY SHOP is full of techs whos verbage would make a sailor blush. Not letting a little old lady out there to talk to a tech about her Town Car. I know enough I can talk to them about just about anything.
Curmudgeon wrote:
neckromacr wrote:
foxtrapper wrote:
Maybe I'm weird, but I also tend to prefer female customers. They don't try to diagnose the problem for me, they tend to very accurately describe it. Like saying there's a squeak under the dashboard sometimes when they press the brake pedal that sounds like an old screen door opening. Now that's useful! And a good service writer will pass that along to the mechanic.
In an industry that's perceived that we like females because they're easy targets, you hit the nail on the head. Many females have no ego when it comes to the goings on in the car, thus don't act like they know what's going on already before the diagnostics ever started.
"Sorry, this must sound so dumb" never sounds dumb at all.
QFT. Women tend to think they are being dumb when describing their car's problem when the opposite is true. A lot of guys come in with their egos all abristle, I guess they think that if they don't know what's wrong with their car that means their goober is small or something. I once had a guy demand we replace his transmission (at his expense!) and refused to allow the tech to diagnose the problem. We of course diagnosed it anway; bad spark plug wires causing it to jerk under load.
I cannot count the number of times someone (both male and female) have brought us a car with invoices from those chain tuneup shops etc where they have spent big $$$ and still have the same problem. We wind up diagnosing and fixing the problem for a good bit less than the customer paid elsewhere. The most recent was a Dodge Stratus which had the transmission overhauled at a large chain (which shall remain nameless but rhymes with Bamco); the actual problem was a bad alternator causing field wire feedback into the PCM. Repair cost $385.00.
That's where a good technician comes in; when a service advisor gathers the correct information and a good technician uses that information and the tools at his disposal to correctly daignose/repair a problem it's a beautiful thing.
Women are only as smart as the DA SA can write. Last SA I had couldn't write a proper ticket to save his sorry ass. I spent more time doing his job on top of mine, doing 99% warranty with the other 1% doing time wasting, once-in-a-lifetime CP's. Stupid cocksuker.
Don't get me started on the scammish nature of Scamco.... The franchise I was at briefly conned a family out of $3500 for a 45rfe rebuild in a Dakota which only needed a quick valve body swap, as the plate that holds all the springs in broke and stripped the bolts out. Internally, it was perfect.....
For a few years there was a push in the service end of things to turn service advisors into salespeople, even to the point of hiring strictly based on previous sales experience of any kind with no automotive experience at all. That backfired (duh) in no small part due to what Ranger brought up: there were people writing service who had not a damn clue which ran people off.
The average customer who brings a car in for service can quickly see when they are being bullshat and there's an old saying: 'Sales department sells the first car to a customer. The service department sells the rest.'
The pendulum seems to be swinging back the other way now.
Ranger, ever seeen a 'brake cleaner overhaul'? 
The auto program I am currently in only offers a 1 year certificate for technicians, while the 'Automotive Management' AAOS is a two year degree. Most of the people in that program have zero clue what they are doing even after a year of auto courses.
My favorite work order comes from when I was a still tech. CLEAN SAW I ended up charging the guy .7 for wasting my time during the busiest season of the year.
Curmudgeon wrote:
logdog wrote:
We can all agree service managers are the worst though, right?
As an ex-service manager, I can tell you that is one of the worst jobs in the business. Used to be the service manager was a tech who moved to service advisor and then moved to service manager, the big thing was knowledge of repairs.
Now it's a pencil pusher number chaser job with a HUGE dose of babysitting thrown in and a VERY short 'half life'. I know for a fact if I am ever gain approached to become a service manager I will respectfully decline. If I'm told 'take it or be gone', well gone it is.
our service managers have all been techs before, up until the current one. The current manager really knows the industry, and knows what he is talking about, though, just doesn't physically work on cars.
Our service managers generally last 6 months apiece. This is his second go at it, and he's the only one who wasn't fired from the job: he quit to go somewhere else, then came back. I have high hopes for the shop under his leadership.
all our writer's know a good deal about how things work here, at subaru, though, it was pretty rough
Stupid ticket story: We got a ticket that said "customer ran over bird. please extract from skid plate"
at least they had the sense to give it to us hourly techs.
Curmudgeon wrote:
Yeah, good trans guys are getting rare. We have a good one; sharp guy with a good understanding of how the damn thing works which means he VERY rarely has a comeback. When he has a recommendation I can take it to the bank.
The GM "trans guy" next to me out in the shop would 70% everyone of them. Easy 8hrs of pay for 5-6-ish hrs of work. He would get 4.5hr to R&R a 4L60E in a truck, then another 1.5hr of teardown time, plus all the additional time allowed for options on the truck. I don't care if only the intermediate sprag broke, he would run up the repair to 70% it. Yet, if I had a 45RFE in a Ram, I would have to start with a bare case to get to 70%. 
Oh and NO teardown time which is a crock of E36 M3, only a combined R&I repair time.
Transmissions are NOT hard to repair PROPERLY. You don't even really have to know HOW they work. You just need to know clearances and how to put them back together. But knowing how they work is a bonus.
Lesley
PowerDork
3/29/13 11:20 p.m.
Ranger50 wrote:
Transmissions are NOT hard to repair PROPERLY. You don't even really have to know HOW they work. You just need to know clearances and how to put them back together. But knowing how they work is a bonus.
Really? They scare the ever-loving E36 M3 out of me. Look like a bag of guts.
Manual transmissions aren't so bad, gears are pretty simple. Automatics are spooky at first, trying to understand how fluid under pressure moves around to apply a clutch pack can be a bit daunting. Add to that the valve body with all its springs, solenoids and etc and an old coot like me sez 'give this to a smart guy'.
The main reason I like having a guy who understands how they work is because he can, after driving one to see what it's doing, have a strong indication of where to look inside which saves time and lowers the possibility of comebacks. That's getting really important with some of the new gearboxes which apply 2 gears at once 
to achieve a desired ratio. That's how all these new 6 and 8 speed boxes work.
Curmudgeon wrote:
Manual transmissions aren't so bad, gears are pretty simple. Automatics are spooky at first, trying to understand how fluid under pressure moves around to apply a clutch pack can be a bit daunting. Add to that the valve body with all its springs, solenoids and etc and an old coot like me sez 'give this to a smart guy'.
The main reason I like having a guy who understands how they work is because he can, after driving one to see what it's doing, have a strong indication of where to look inside which saves time and lowers the possibility of comebacks. That's getting really important with some of the new gearboxes which apply 2 gears at once to achieve a desired ratio. That's how all these new 6 and 8 speed boxes work.
I hate, hate, HATE manuals. Either I end up with them too tight and have too much shift pressure or too loose like a hot knife through warm butter. Never can find the happy medium. I LOVE driving them, but they don't like me to fix them.
Nothing new about the multiple clutches engaged to different elements. Chrysler has used that idea since they went to the 42-46RH/A500/A518 transmissions initially. You have to have 3rd/direct engaged, since the OD unit is hanging outside of the main case, to get OD. Not applying direct gets you nowhere as the intermediate, or the old output shaft, doesn't turn. Would have been nice for them to think outside the box and make it a 6spd well before anybody else. Plus make a better matched converter to what is in front of the trans.
But as to all the valvebody elements, unless you are modifying it, no need to mess with them. Just get another VB and bolt it in. Solenoid fails, replace it. Just make sure all your valves more freely, but not rocking in the bore, brake clean it out, and install.
There are also a bunch of other nuances, but until you start rebuilding your first one, don't need to be divulged yet.
On a repair order today in our shop....
Customer states car jakes, then stops, then makes a piddling sound. Turn it off for 5 minutes and it goes away. Has CEL on.....
Check and advise..........
Seriously?...............
