Young Architects Applying for Jobs - Why I have Yet to Higher Anyone

cmcgregor (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Slippery :

I don't have any skin in this argument, but I really don't see how Dean's spelling and grammar errors have anything to do with the point of his post.

See the post above.

The one comment I have on spelling and grammar is that for the majority of the internet that's the primary way you can present yourself.  GRM is a bit of an oddball in that personally meeting someone on the other end happens near-weekly with at least one pair of members, but most of the interaction happens here on this board.

As a result of that I, at least, try to make sure everything I type out is as correct as I can make it.  Well, that reason and because I get confusing at times, so clear "speech" helps.

Your mileage may vary.

I took a technical editing class in school. I use that one miserable optional elective class more than any other. I'd recommend it to anyone who thinks they may have to write anything that'll ever be read.

also the original list has two #3's.

In reply to Slippery :

Non taken. All very constructive points  Full disclosure:  I have not looked at in years. For all I know it could be a non edited version. There were issues with the host provider years back that if you changed things they would look at it and I assume some algorithm would compare it to there backup and see a change and revert it back to the original a couple days later. Very annoying but I just assumed all that had been fixed.  
 

Tks for the heads up. 

dean1484 said:

In reply to Duke :

I was agreeing with you.

I realized that. The reason I was puzzled is that I wrote what I wrote because I disagreed with your original post.

You seemed to be complaining about a severe lack of technical knowledge in young applicants.  I was saying that technical knowledge was a distant second or third after critical thinking and design ability to me.

I don't need drafting grunts. I need future architects.

Mr_Asa said:

Mr. Peabody said:

After only one change of employment in 34 years, I've been on the potential employee side of the game twice now in the last few.

As an aside, this is also an outmoded model of work.  In general, companies don't give raises and take care of their employees anymore, the way they get a raise, professional development, and better benefits is to find a better job.  I think the statistic was 21% change jobs in one year, and only 20% last longer than 5 years.

That's not been my experience, and it's not the way it is in my trade.

In my case I made the last two moves to work less, and this time took a $20k pay cut to only work only 3 days a week.

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

Same issues with mechanical designers from our experience.   Some of this comes from unrealistic expectations from owners / developers, we see many”permit sets” being put out to bid and then get buried with addendums just before the bid dates.    I’m not sure what the answer is but I know I prefer doing my own designs and hiring the engineers as needed to document the project for the customer.   

Relative to the OP’s frustrations, my experience with the younger engineers is they are smart, have excellent skills, are willing to learn and that they do listen to thoughtful suggestions from the contractor point of view.  We can agree that there’s no substitute for experience but they have to get it somewhere.

Having read Dean's rebuttals in this topic, I'm glad that I just saw this topic and have previously bitten my tongue and chose not to be the spelling police. No good will really come from it. Dean has contributed a Hell of a lot on here and I think we'd probably be friends if we met in real life.... so criticizing his spelling is kinda pointless. 

(I do think Toyman's "helper" software suggestion is a useful one). 

Regarding the original post - and having graduated from architecture school and worked in the profession for 27 years - I have two ways of describing the kind of cover letter language that Dean is observing. 

1) talkitecture - trying to sound smart because the university professors do this

2) verbal masturbation

There are absolutely different types of architects. There are flair pen architects [often but not always.. these tend to be "talkitects"] and there are technical architects. I'm the latter. The flair pen types irritate me but I definitely recognize that the profession needs BOTH. It is just rare to find a hybrid architect who can do both well.   

In Boston I have been told you find more technical architects at BAC than Harvard.  

Your mileage may vary. 

dean1484 said:

EDIT:  Maybe this will help some of the young people out there.

I am always on the lookout for Architects.  Young eager professionals fresh out of college and/or done with their first internship.

I read these letters introducing them to me and they are .. . .    Complete rubbish.   They say nothing!!!!   It is hopes and dreams and nothing at all.   

For those that are thinking of this as a profession (or any profession).

1. Do a little research on my company and what we do.  At least read the website.

2. What are you going to add/bring to my company?  What niche can you fill what problems can you solve what are you good at?

3. Problem solving in general.  Everything I see is about imagined concepts and a grand scale.  How about something that had a budget, a tricky plot of land with zoning issues that is in a hurricane zone.  Ya. . .   The real world.   

3. 99.9 percent send 3d cad drawings to me.  Are the design schools that out of touch with the fact that 99.9 percent of design jobs never use any 3d at all?  You may have a degree and you may be able to use 3d cad or Revit but that just makes you a glorified 3d line drawer. Can you generate a set of plans?  And we won't even get in to project specifications.  An AIA-based CSI spec.  Never once mentioned in what is sent to me.

4. Do you know anything about building code?  I have never seen a resume that even mentions the code.  If just one person mentioned something about use groups or even mentioned the IBC it would push you way up the list.

5. Are you a leader or a follower that will need to be managed?  I don't need people that I am going to have to constantly be watching taking up more of my time.  The point to a new employee is for them to take up more of the workload for me/their boss. 

All the young Architects are out there crying that they don't have any work and no one will hire them.  It is sad really.  The schools are sucking these kids in with promises of granger and glory with mystical dreams of unlimited creativity with no constraints of time or budget.  Then they get spit out into the real world and we that own Design firms look at them and there is no place for them in our businesses. 

 

Part of a letter I got from an applicant:

I cherish the synthetic role of the architect (working with means of expression and representation to overcome complexity).  

Without forgetting the competitive aspect of our profession which I really appreciate. Dedicating oneself to an idea, imagining, strengthening, and enhancing it, until it becomes part of the built environment.  

I understand that the current conjuncture is complicated.

   

What is this BS?  If you are saying that the role of an architect is synthetic (fake) you have just insulted me and you have absolutely no clues as to what the job really involves.

Something else is his dream.  The real role of an architect is to realize a client's dream.  I have hated some of the things I have designed but it was exactly what my client wanted.  My dreams as a designer don't matter.  My client's dreams are what pay the bills.  Realize your client's dreams and you will do very well.

  His current conjecture is not complicated (again insulting the reader as if he is somehow superior) it is just crap

 

 

 

 

After working 27 years of construction and 20 years of Architectural and Engineering design, I think that any student of either discipline should have to spend summers working construction to appreciate what it means to build the crap Architects and Engineers dream up. In 3D. Just how do you expect people to build the stuff you dream up? And I realize that Means and Methods is not in your job description or your problem, but...

Agreed. And construction supers should spend a summer in an architectural office looking at alternative ways to do things, and how not to put some ugly  wart right in the middle of the wall, except off center and not lined up with anything else.

Or that the rest of the building is NOT built around the sprinkler system.

Duke said:

Agreed. And construction supers should spend a summer in an architectural office looking at alternative ways to do things, and how not to put some ugly  wart right in the middle of the wall, except off center and not lined up with anything else.

Or that the rest of the building is NOT built around the sprinkler system.

 

I absolutely agree.

VolvoHeretic said:After working 27 years of construction and 20 years of Architectural and Engineering design, I think that any student of either discipline should have to spend summers working construction to appreciate what it means to build the crap Architects and Engineers dream up. In 3D. Just how do you expect people to build the stuff you dream up? And I realize that Means and Methods is not in your job description or your problem, but...

You could say the same thing about many professions.  All the good process engineers I worked with over the years had experience on the floor, on the stuff they're actually supposed to be working on.

I tried to convince management to put new Millwright hires with the press set up guys for 3 months and they thought I was nuts.  There's good reason our best press mechanics all came from setup.

Duke said:

Agreed. And construction supers should spend a summer in an architectural office looking at alternative ways to do things, and how not to put some ugly  wart right in the middle of the wall, except off center and not lined up with anything else.

Or that the rest of the building is NOT built around the sprinkler system.

1st paragraph: LOL agreeeee

2nd paragraph: if our drawings tell them what's important, then it's fair to blame them.  Otherwise we better hustle and bridge that giant gap somehow. 

In reply to VolvoHeretic :

My 21 year old architect student daughter needs this job this summer - send lead and I'll pass them to her.