Here are a few highlights. I added an Incident Review at the back so people can comment on them if they like. They are essentially either rear or side taps. The side taps can be hard to tell they happened both because of visibility and lack of feedback. I am not sure this track had a lot more than typical and I think most of the offs where like the Goodwood Experience clip shown early on.
Good grief, I got fifth in the first heat? I thought it was more like eighth! That makes that black hole in the second heat all the more exasperating. At least we have a way to deal with it if it happens again.
I'm trying to log some practice laps at Croft and build at least a little familiarity with it. There are some sections that seem pretty critical and possibly difficult to master, or maybe I just don't know what I'm doing, which is more likely. Car setup is a little different from Goodwood as well. I've been able to get fairly consistent 1:45s in the 2002 but not getting a whole lot faster yet.
One thing I think needs to be discussed is reentering the track if you end up off of it. Dean took a lot of flak for his reentry causing another round of contact, but he did reenter under control and parallel to the track surface as the rules dictate. Now, it is incumbent on the one reentering to make sure they are clear to do so, but with the limited views in a sim, track angles, and radar not accounting for closing speed there is the potential for what is essentially a huge blind spot for those reentering.
In this example Dean ended up off track as a victim of other contact, got control and lined himself up to rejoin the track. It happened that the track had straightened out by then so with no side view mirrors he only has the middle rear view, glance left or radar to tell him what is going on behind and 4-5 car widths to the side of him. Here being off track served as a shortcut and he was ahead of the other pack of cars which are closing, but if they aren't there yet glance left is empty, you can't see 4-5 car widths over in your rearview and with the speed delta radar won't give you any notice until contact is inevitable. So, what do you do? From all inputs it seems clear to rejoin and the cars coming up should have had ample warning to make room for a car entering. In the same situation I think almost everyone on here would make the same call to reenter the track, I know I would. It just happens that without the full picture that the traffic is 3 wide without ample room to accommodate the extra car contact was inevitable.
And to be clear this isn't intended to be a discussion about this incident but rather the concept as a whole. There have been a few times this season where something similar has happened (Ascari comes to mind), but we are getting to participant numbers where, especially in race 2, the car differences and the lack of familiarity with everyone in the field conditions are ripe for this type of thing to happen. So, if/when it does, what are the protocols?
In reply to e30Matt :
I suppose you're right. It doesn't matter much to me yet how incidents are handled, and I really appreciate the fact that we're all reasonable adults who generally treat each other with courtesy and give each other the benefit of the doubt. It is probably a bigger deal for someone who is at risk of losing points.
We had the re-entry problem in the GT3 series a while back, and everyone kind of figured it out. I don't think it's been as much a problem lately, but we do have a number of new racers... maybe a quick discussion about the radar will help?
FWIW, Goodwood's ice grass made re-entry very difficult, and less predictable than many of the other tracks we've run.
Matt mentioned Dean catching a lot of flak. Maybe he did, and I just didn't notice. Most of what I heard was Dean apologizing for making a hash of things and offering to change cars for the next event.
The Benz at Goodwood is probably kind of a worst case scenario, and possibly a poor choice, but Dean is clearly doing his best to avoid contact.
While it's always good to have a plan, it's already established that unsportsmanlike behavior of any kind will result in being excused from the group. Anything more specific than that may be kind of a moot point. Nobody has any money riding on this. I'm fine with the existing informal discussion and review process.
I sent a note to Dean separately, but wanted to apologize more publicly for definitely being the cause of the chicane incident. I got bumped out and didn't think I left track as much as I did, so I think it's fair to call that a re-entry. On top of that with limited sight I didn't realize Dean was right next to me going into the chicane. That's entirely on me as I have Radar on, but clearly wasn't using it, making it as good as off
I have bumped into people from the side with the radar very visible (I set it almost directly in my line of sight). If you are concentrating on a car in front of you or a corner, you can certainly miss a red car symbol right in front of you.
Stuff is always going to happen. So there is that also.
Of note in the rear hit segments shown, in each case the hitting car clearly either waited to make sure the car they hit got in front of them, or that's how it worked out. Our general courtesy rule has been, for quite a long time is: if you bump someone off, you should wait and let them in front of you.
As noted, side bumps can be very difficult to detect, so that will likely always be somewhat of an issue.
aircooled said:Here are a few highlights. I added an Incident Review at the back so people can comment on them if they like. They are essentially either rear or side taps. The side taps can be hard to tell they happened both because of visibility and lack of feedback. I am not sure this track had a lot more than typical and I think most of the offs where like the Goodwood Experience clip shown early on.
I didn't know if the highlights could be improved any further, but adding the incident review is an excellent way to inject some learning into the entertaining highlight reel. That may have been a run-on sentence.
In reply to cmcmillin31 :
Run-on sentences are fine it's not like this is the grammar thread besides sometimes more points need to be made and who has time for breaths anyway periods are for suckers. Fragments too.
In reply to Sk1dmark (Forum Supporter) :
Don't worry about him Skid. He's just excited to see his "Dr Slideways" driving exhibited in the replay! Besides, his communications expertise more lies in having a conversations with someone, who has his hands, in their wide open mouth! 
Also, in case anyone didn't see this in the main forum (he expressed some concern in another thread, so...):
tuna55 said:aircooled said:In reply to tuna55 :
Just wanted to take a minute to tell you (completely unrelated to this thread, sorry, I just suspect you will see this), NOT a rant:
Your son is doing great with us in the AC (online racing) league. He is not in the way, and is respectful and very much actively tries not to be in the way. The second son (Tuna3?) is a little less prepared (what, no driving yet, he has to be at least what 10?!
I am hoping he is not learning any new swear words (we had a bad week last week, so some got out). We normally try not to swear, and I honestly expect he could teach us some, but, it's better not to encourage it with him, or us!
Dude thank you so much for that. The second son is Tunakid 2, and he's 13. I appreciate you guys not getting incredibly annoyed with them, and I really appreciate that they're in good internet hands, so to speak.
thank you thank you
"Good" may be overselling it a bit :)
I know you'll miss me tonight, but I'm out. Had to travel to Misery for work.
Hey Air, just noticed in the standings an error due to my display name. Unless you want to run my entry in split-personality mode, Chris Acuna and Sk1dmark are both me.
I'm out for tonight. We are heading to CO for a race this weekend.
In reply to Sk1dmark (Forum Supporter) :
OK, I think I got it now. Hey... I lost a place! 
Sorry about that! Based on my practice at Croft I'm sure you'll be making that place back tonight!
Wait, not like it matters much, but it seems the 1 point I got from Summit Point was never counted
Dude! You are making it very hard to cheat here! . (updated above)
Some potential things for tonight:
- This is a pretty tight course, we should consider a rolling start. I don't think we need a full lap, we can probably start on one of the back straights (pole positions calls the start)
- We can consider not doing the reverse grid for the second race, but hopefully we can avoid that (makes for a more interesting race)
- Dean found a good car to test for next season (it's in the Testing folder), which we might be doing next week (since I am out, unless someone else wants to handle the scoring, clearly I am perfect at it...). We are pretty much assuming it will be a spec series with a bit easier to drive car than most of what we are driving now. Other candidates should also be considered.
It looks like Thruxton, despite being an English airfield based course, looks to be rather wide, so might not be an issues (I was thinking we might want to swap tracks). Riverside is a bit narrower, but it surrounded by not so slippery sand, and of course, is icon and bitchin' (and I picked it... so... no touchy' my tracky' )
I dont think we should change the rules on the fly.
I am 50/50 in tonight. I've moved but havent setup any PC/sim stuff yet. I might be able to squeeze it together in the next few hours, but I'm juggling a lot.
That said I may hop on discord to to ridicule some people.
I'm with Pro on not changing rules on the fly.
For Croft, the E_scorts can use shorter gearing that actually allows them to get off the line, so we won't be quite the usual blockade. That should help the BMWs as well... My vote is for standing start for race 1, rolling start for race 2 with the inverted order.
Let's run with the same rules. Let's chalk off last week to a one-off CF (we have had them before and I am sure we will again).
We just need to be a bit more vigilant. As we all get better at this the racing is going to get closer. A year ago a small mistake was usually not a big deal. Now with us racing in bigger packs and much closer that same type of incident can now end up having more significant consequences. We are a victim of everyone getting better at this.
We all will have to be cognizant of the first turn or series of turns. There really is only one line between the tires so people are going to have to play nice there. If you don't and you hit the tires they grab you and stop you dead. (from my testing last night). SO bumping some one into the tires will end very badly for the person that hits the tires.
I was doing some more testing last night and my quick list is.
z3: Fun!! A faster miata
z4: A badly modeled car with poor sound. Unless this car sucks this bad in real life.
98 WRX Sti: fun but a bit soft and imprecise (like the real car) A sanitized driving experience and it really does not want to turn unless you completely manhandle it. Not a real fan of this but it is very much like the real deal. I am not a fan of the sound. It may be good but I have never liked the sound of a Subi
99 Lancer Evo: I like this very much. Much more precise and crisp. The Evo is a scalpel where as the Subi is a steak knife. Both fast but I like the Evo better. Maybe a WRX versus EVO series?
Porsche Cayman S club sport: It is very fun but "racecar". It picks up the bumps in the road much more than street-oriented cars. I tested all these at GPF and the rattling this car transmits back through the screen makes focusing on the track interesting (like a real race car really) but some people may not like it. I can see getting sick in a VR set up. It is such a change to have brakes that work and handling that actually does not try to kill you.
Rodan said:I'm with Pro on not changing rules on the fly.
For Croft, the E_scorts can use shorter gearing that actually allows them to get off the line, so we won't be quite the usual blockade. That should help the BMWs as well... My vote is for standing start for race 1, rolling start for race 2 with the inverted order.
We reserve the right to change the rules at any time. BUT I would like to think that there would be general consensus taken before doing so. People's opinions matter and I would listen to any input people have about changes. We would not just arbitrarily change the rules mid-season unless it was an absolute necessity. The most likley thing that would cause a change would be if a car turns out to be a complete overdog. Like if I swap into an un-tested car and all of a sudden I am crushing the front of the field.
A couple of changes I was thinking about for the future.
This last one I don't think will ever happen. It would be over managing the series. This is racing after all. There are winners and losers. It is what motivates people to get better at it and makes winning that much better.
Other suggestions are welcome!!!
dean1484 said:. It would be over managing the series. This is racing after all. There are winners and losers. It is what motivates people to get better at it and makes winning that much better.
On that note: I'm not sure the 1/4 car's worth of penalty weight is making for an even playing field and closer racing. It might be doing the opposite.
Can we agree, for example, that if we're all in the exact same car, 200 lb of penalty weight technically makes things less fair?
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