JY FWD/AWD Double Wishbone Source

I've scoured the interwebs over the last couple days, and here's what I've got so far, Tall or Short is an arbitrary reference to the size of the knuckle:

• Honda Civic 1988-2000 -Tall (All I think)
• honda CRV -Tall
• Honda Accord 1994-2007 -Tall
• Honda Prelude (Same as Accord?) -Tall
• Acura Integra (Same as Civic?) -Tall
• Dodge Stratus - Tall
• Mitsubishi Eclipse 1995-1999 -Tall
• Mitsubishi Galant xxxx-1999 (Same as Eclipse?) -Tall
• Hyundai Sonata - Tall
• Lotus Elan M100 - Short
• Saab 900 - Short Possibly Perfect choice
• Infinity G20 - Short but has a crazy tall upper control arm
• Pontiac Solstice - Short (RWD Rear Knuckle)
• Saturn Sky - Short (RWD Rear Knuckle)
• Chevy/GMC S10/S15 Blazer/Jimmy 4x4 - Shortish
• Dodge Dakota/Durango 4x4 - Shortish

I'm trying to come up with a double wishbone FWD/AWD/4x4 suspension source. I've got an okay list, however the vast majority of what I've found have a very tall knuckle, i.e. the upper ball joint is usually above the tire. I don't think I can realistically get any of those tall knuckles to work.

The best options it seems so far are the short knuckled Solstice/Sky, Elan, and (gasp!) GM S series trucks. The salvage yards aren't exactly flush with Skies, Solstices, or Elans. I think I could make a S series knuckle do what I want, but a perfect solution would come from the factory about the size of the Solstice and have a hub with a 4x100mm pattern on it. Sourced from something that can be had at the Pick 'N Pull for peanuts would be the icing on the cake.

Anyone got any other suggestions? I seem to have exhausted my Googlefu.

• Lee

Dodge trucks. I'm using a dakota front end in my locost-ish datsun replica. The 1500 would have been even better, what with the rear steer setup.

Honda used "double wishbone" in the Accords back to 1986, but it wasn't the double A arm setup we're all familiar with. Up front, it was a lower control arm and a radius rod that connected between the front engine cross member and the lower control arm that made up that lower unit.

The knuckles are pretty tall, though. I have a few spares in my parts collection.

don't forget, it is also possible to adapt a strut suspension

http://finance.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/locost/message/5677

So it dawned on me while I was folding clothes, and off in Leeland, that the Sky/Solstice are RWD, and thus lead to a WTF moment, and further investigation. The rear uses ball joints like the front, and an adjustable rod to adjust rear caster. I saw the pictures and assumed I was looking at the front. The front and rear knuckles appear the same. Tirerod ends on front attach to what appears to be the same spot on the rear that the caster adjuster attaches. Anyone confirm or deny that?

The part numbers I found are different, but they sure don't appear to be:

15262566 Front Right
15262567 Front Left
15262568 Rear Right
15262569 Rear Left

• Lee

In reply to JoeyM:

Thanks for the heads up on the Dakota, I had looked at all the other IFS compact trucks, but for some reason I thought the Dakota was a solid front axle.

I've read a little about converting MacPherson style knuckles, and even scratch building them, over on the LocostUSA forum, but would really like to find an off the shelf/out of the yard solution.

In reply to Derick Freese:

Thanks, I've pretty much discounted all of the "Tall" knuckles in my list at this point.

• Lee

SAAB c900s have double wishbone front arms and short knuckles plus the early ones had 4x100 bolt pattern

Infiniti G20 front / Miata rear?

and the early ones had handbrakes built into the front hubs

In reply to HappyAndy:

Thanks for the Saab tip, would have never thought of them. looks like <88 got 4x4.5" and ≥88 got 4x108mm. I think I could work with either.

In reply to mad_machine:

Interesting, do you know how early? Looks like '88-'93 are what I'd be interested in, from what the Saab 900 has to offer.

In reply to MCarp22:

Thanks, the G20 is another one I would have never thought of. The knuckle looks promising, but I don't want anything to do with that upper control arm contraption. Though, homebrewed tubular control arms aren't completely ruled out yet... one problem at a time.

I got some more info on the Solstice/Sky knuckles, but I want to follow up on it some more to be sure.

Thanks for all the input so far everyone!

• Lee

Pre-88 front brakes have the e-brake built in but, frankly, are a pain in the ass. But they certainly work if you don't want an e-brake on the rear wheels. They are harder to service, and over time wear in such a way that they make an annoying clunk whenever you use the brakes in reverse. If it gets really bad, the clunk is LOUD.

The 88+ spindles were designed to fit larger rotors than the earlier stuff, which was designed for somewhat thin, solid rotors.

In '90, they added ABS, so if you need sensors, you'll need '90+ spindles, which are machined for the sensors.

The '88+ stuff allows you to use later 9000 rotors, the largest inexpensive bolt-on available. Larger 9000 calipers can go on, too, though I don't really think there's anything wrong with the 900 calipers.

The lower control arms are pretty well-known for fatiguing and cracking. Don't let this be a deterrent, but be aware of it. In '91, the part number changed, and so they may have fixed the problem. (Pic here of the usual break location: http://www.saabspokane.com/images/a-arm1.jpg) Also, a company called Scantech makes decent aftermarket lowers (the uppers are NLA and no one makes a replacement). eeuroparts.com if you want to go with new. If memory serves, they are 80-90 dollars apiece.

You can use any spring you want by either modifying the spring seat to accept common 5" ID springs, or even narrower. If you go narrower, you can fit more rim/tire. The suspension was designed for an ET40 rim.

As you can see in the diagram below, both ball joints are inside the rim:

In case it matters, this is a rear-steer set-up.

In reply to procainestart:

Thank you thank you! Scantech is a bad word in the Volvo world, but the other Swedes like it?

I've been updating the original list, as information is provided.

• Lee

Full-size chevy and 97-04 ford 4x4 front suspension will be double wishbone, but torsion spring, so probably not what you want. Not sure on s series 4x4 but post twin I-beam rangers were torsion spring dw as well.

procainestart wrote: Pre-88 front brakes have the e-brake built in but, frankly, are a pain in the ass. But they certainly work if you don't want an e-brake on the rear wheels. They are harder to service, and over time wear in such a way that they make an annoying clunk whenever you use the brakes in reverse. If it gets really bad, the clunk is LOUD.

So that's what that noise is!

bigdaddylee82 wrote: In reply to procainestart: Thank you thank you! Scantech is a bad word in the Volvo world, but the other Swedes like it? I've been updating the original list, as information is provided. - Lee

Well, ScanCrap is pretty well-loathed in the Saab world, too, but this particular part seems well-made: decent welds, tough finish. The last pair I bought came from Korea, if that matters. Basically, it's the only ScanTech part I've used that doesn't suck.

there is a reason I am converting my 87 to the my 91's suspension

'04 and up 4x4 F150s have a-arms and coil overs. What about Toyota Pickups/4Runners? They have IFS and 4x4.

Hey look, its a thread that has been dead for years; but it still has good info, and after all, we look in wrecking yartds for old parts, right?

I started looking at some of the hubs on this excellent list and seeing the comments on bolt patterns.  I started looking at wheel bearing sizes and have found some interesting things.

For instance, a Saab 900 knuckle with a Ford/Mazda/Volvo wheel bearing will take a VW MK2 hub.  With the right bearing you can also use a Miata 4x100 hub if you include a 2mm washer.

Long story short, looking up wheel bearing sizes can allow you to cross reference hub dimensions and mix and match to get bolt patterns and axle splines that you already have parts for (or are looking to use).  Fun info if you are trying to use off the shelf parts and whatever you have on the shelf already.

Matthew

C5 Corvette front and rear spindles if I remember correctly are the same.