In reply to TheV8Kid :
The Jaguar V12 is both cheap and durable. Buy a rusty one and it might cost $300-500 The EFI is analog except for the last ones 6.0 liters instead of 5.3 The crankshaft is hardened EN40 Forging. ( same as Cosworth F1). As are the rods. Main Journals are 3". 4 bolt mains. Rods are 2.300
Want more cubic inches cheap? Offset grind the crankshaft to Chevy Rod size. Pick up another 40 cubic inches.
In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
Oh. Ok. Don't people swap those out for Small Block Chevys because of how unreliable they are? Or is that one those "they get a bad rap things"?
FWIW, I'd like to see what the boys from York could do with a Jag V12.
In reply to TheV8Kid :
Well now you've done it.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:In reply to TheV8Kid :
Well now you've done it.
Yep!
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:In reply to TheV8Kid :
Well now you've done it.
Yep!
I'm genuinely curious. I've only really heard of them from the Roadkill Draguar where they bought a Jaguar that already had it swapped out and put a big blower on it. I would imagine like with any british car, they had tons of wiring issues.
In reply to TheV8Kid :
I know absolutely nothing about the Jags, but I'd love to see someone do something cool with one... if anyone can, you are the man!
Frenchy is very knowledgeable about them, but hasn't yet risen to the occasion to show off his talents.
The comments about you having "done it" are an inside joke. You suggested ripping out a Jag engine and throwing in a Bowtie, which are generally fighting words with Frenchy. Best way to get a thread to head downhill fast is to suggest to Frenchy that a Chevy is better than a Jag.
I DO think the Jag parts are impressive, and available cheap. If someone put the kind of development into one that you have, it would be sexy as hell- totally badass.
But your problem is you are building a speed shop. No matter how much effort you put into a Jag engine, you will never have buyers. They will all say, "Isn't a Chevy LS better?". Even if you prove Frenchy right.
It's a fun thought exercise. That V12 would be sick in the engine bay of a car with a nice long hood.
In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
Oh. For sure. The Vortec 4200 stuff is terrible for trying to build a speed shop too. Sometimes you do stuff because it's what you like, not because it's what makes sense.
In reply to TheV8Kid :
From the bottom the engine looks like a top fuel with 4 extra cylinders.
Stock it's very powerful for the time. Stone stock it made 61 more horsepower than a Chevy 454 ( with American pollution specs it still made 32 more HP than the 454 )
They ran it at the 24 hours of LeMans and won twice making as much as 815 horsepower.
The early ones 1971-1980 have the most power potential. They had a completely flat head ( no combustion chamber. ) the chamber was in the piston and the head flowed fantastic. Open the valve and the intake doesn't have to curl around the walls of the combustion chamber.
From 3/4 of 1977Jaguar used the GM turbo 400 so adapting a manual transmission is very easy.
oh all the bolts are SAE either fine or coarse thread no metric until about 1992.
The steel sleeves have always been within new specs on every one I've opened up. Plus they will go out to 3& 5/8ths from the stock 3&1/2" plus there is rarely any wear on the cranks( hardened )
I bought a total of 50 in the 80's& 90's. Some were free, the most I ever paid was $500 for the first one. The rest were between $100-$300
In reply to TheV8Kid :
Well said
In reply to TheV8Kid :
Frenchy can explain to you how your Atlas engine is based off a Jaguar straight 6 also.
In reply to frenchyd :
They are very narrow. 22" A little long. 32". Heavy. And easy to work on. You can change camshafts on a V12 in less than half the time it takes to do a V8
From 1971-1992 they used a distributor. In 1993 with the 6.0 liter (366 cu in ) they went distributorless
Want to work with carbs? The early ones had 4 two inch butterflies that are lawn mower simple. Yeh bigger than a Holley Dominator. Later ones had EFI.
Headers don't do much, even properly designed ones. 4% maybe. That's the advantage of even firing. But they require 27+ feet of primary pipe. The stock cast Iron ones weigh 4 pounds each ( 4 manifolds)
In reply to frenchyd :
Offered in ‘71 only was the LS6 454 cu in (7.4 L) big-block featuring aluminum heads and delivering 425 hp
What year Jaguar V12 came stock with 486hp?
In reply to TheV8Kid :
See that? This is what those inside jokes were about. 
Lets keep this thread to Calvin's Atlas, OK? We can start another thread (or twelve) to argue about old school V8s and v12s.
TheV8Kid said:In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
Oh. For sure. The Vortec 4200 stuff is terrible for trying to build a speed shop too. Sometimes you do stuff because it's what you like, not because it's what makes sense.
Wonderful!!
Then PLEASE build a V12! Pretty please??
Stampie (FS) said:In reply to frenchyd :
Offered in ‘71 only was the LS6 454 cu in (7.4 L) big-block featuring aluminum heads and delivering 425 hp
What year Jaguar V12 came stock with 486hp?
Do you know the difference between Gross/Advertized and Net horsepower?
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to TheV8Kid :
IfI I know absolutely nothing about the Jags, but I'd love to see someone do something cool with one... if anyone can, you are the man!
Frenchy is very knowledgeable about them, but hasn't yet risen to the occasion to show off his talents.
The comments about you having "done it" are an inside joke. You suggested ripping out a Jag engine and throwing in a Bowtie, which are generally fighting words with Frenchy. Best way to get a thread to head downhill fast is to suggest to Frenchy that a Chevy is better than a Jag.
I DO think the Jag parts are impressive, and available cheap. If someone put the kind of development into one that you have, it would be sexy as hell- totally badass.
But your problem is you are building a speed shop. No matter how much effort you put into a Jag engine, you will never have buyers. They will all say, "Isn't a Chevy LS better?". Even if you prove Frenchy right.
It's a fun thought exercise. That V12 would be sick in the engine bay of a car with a nice long hood.
You have seen my XKE with Weber's and headers? For eye candy that's as pretty as they get.
Yes you are absolutely right that most people want Chevies. but the trouble is you are then competing against everyone else. You have to beat the Jegs, Summits, etc of the world for parts prices.
To get recognition you need to win something big. Often repeat those wins to get ink. ( I guess views nowdays )
Everybody and their brother knows the going price for every Chevy. And parts for it. If you want to stand out, you need to do something different.
One final argument. Who do you think tends to have more disposable income? The new Chevy buyer? Or the new Jaguar buyer?
Face it, I've bought 20 new Chevy's in my life. A few used. I've raced a Corvette that I built in SCCA BProduction. So you won't hear me bad mouthing Chevy's. I will tell you why a Jaguar is a better deal though if you want to go racing.
In reply to frenchyd :
You have a V12 kicking around that you'd donate to the Nelsons? Something you're not going to get around to using? I'd kick in $20 to start the funds to ship it.
You guys realize we have a Land Speed car, a Gasser, a No Prep car, a Drag Week Car, the LS4/FWD Talon project, the Altas cars and (2) Challenge cars being worked on...right... and starting a business.... Let's not kill the Nelsons.... please.
In reply to frenchyd :
I do and I can do mathematics also. Here's a link for you to rant in:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/jagv12-going-teach-us-gross-vs-net-hp/181082/page1/
wheels777 said:You guys realize we have a Land Speed car, a Gasser, a No Prep car, a Drag Week Car, the LS4/FWD Talon project, the Altas cars and (2) Challenge cars being worked on...right... and starting a business.... Let's not kill the Nelsons.... please.
HA! Sorry I suggested it!
In reply to frenchyd :
Nobody has to beat Jegs or Summit.
Regardless of what you bring, you have to beat the Nelsons!
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) said:wheels777 said:You guys realize we have a Land Speed car, a Gasser, a No Prep car, a Drag Week Car, the LS4/FWD Talon project, the Altas cars and (2) Challenge cars being worked on...right... and starting a business.... Let's not kill the Nelsons.... please.
HA! Sorry I suggested it!
No need to be sorry. And this is not a complaint.... We are just trying to catch our breath. Last year we finished rebuilding a 133 year old house and a 100 year old barn...both from the foundations to the rooves. Set the FWD LS4 record, reset the SBE 4.2 record, survived Covid, quadrupled the youtube channel traffic and started a business. We are ready to just focus on some racing this year.. After we bust a few records we are committed to we will find what is "next".
Suggestions are always welcomed. However, based on the details shared above and any level of honest legitimate research, a Jag V12 is a very poor choice for a new current day race engine.
Hopefully the thread can go back to focusing on the Studebaker build.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to frenchyd :
Nobody has to beat Jegs or Summit.
Regardless of what you bring, you have to beat the Nelsons!
That will never happen by me. While I applaud their achievements and compliment them on their creativity
They have no need to even think about me. Something about horses for courses applies I think.
In the unlikely event I ever wound up on a drag strip and they were there I'd be honored if they would take my car and show me how to drag race. In fact I have no doubt virtually anybody could out perform me on a drag strip
Something about old and slow.
TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to frenchyd :
You have a V12 kicking around that you'd donate to the Nelsons? Something you're not going to get around to using? I'd kick in $20 to start the funds to ship it.
Donate is a very hard word for a world famous titewad. Sell very cheap? Sure.
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