$2015 Challenge entry - 88 Accord LXi

I painted one coat on the hood.

I learned a lot.

It looks bad, and I did so many things wrong that I am not even going to tell you about it. It's yellower, and it looks better than the peeling white that was there before.

More to come tonight, when I do things right, before midnight, and actually take some pictures.

Here are my painting notes. Since it's late at night, and my hands are both busy or full of paint, I have no good pictures.

-When you clean off the car to paint it, clean off everything. When I painted the hood the first time, I didn't clean off the roof and the ground and everything, and so basically I blew all that dust right onto the newly sticky paint and it looked awful.

-When you use wide masking paper to mask surfaces, you have to tape it down judiciously. It won't just hang out while you spray nearby, it will blow away, and you will paint your windshield wipers.

-Assuming that the factory primer was flat enough is not a safe assumption.

-The HVLP is very easy to set up, and overspray is much easier to control than I had guessed

https://www.amazon.com/Astro-EUROHV103-EuroPro-Forged-Plastic/dp/B0040Y301S

-The compressor seems to be able to keep up.

-The second attempt looks dramatically better than the first.

-I am not sure a gallon is enough if I keep making attempts.

-My kids love shiny paint, even if it's pretty terrible.

Last night I finally decided to do some stuff to get my speedometer to work again.

For those who do not remember, the idle is at 3K or so while the wheels are spinning. Come to a stop, and the idle drops to normal faster than you can get the hood open. I originally disconnected the IACV to avoid this, but that causes other issues when the A/C is on and other stuff. I found that I could get the thing to idle properly if I disconnected the speedometer cable.

The car has an old school speedometer cable. It has a speed sensor mounted to the speedometer which, presumably, tells the computer how fast the car is going. Derick sent me a known good speed sensor. I tried swapping a few weeks ago and it did not solve the issue.

Last night I got clever and decided to simply unhook the speed sensor. That did not work. Then I got really clever, and decided to plug in the known good speed sensor and simple leave it dangling. That also did not work.

I truly have no idea how the computer even knows how the wheels are moving without the speed sensor.

Ideas? I am out.

I truly have no idea how the computer even knows how the wheels are moving without the speed sensor. Ideas? I am out.

Anti-lock brake data?

NOHOME wrote:

I truly have no idea how the computer even knows how the wheels are moving without the speed sensor. Ideas? I am out.

Anti-lock brake data?

Too early for ABS

is it idling high when the clutch or brake pedal is in, or truly only when the car is moving?

ECU could be getting a signal from a clutch or brake switch.

Is there a vacuum leak when the wheels are moving? Like if you are on the brake pedal slightly and the brake booster is causing a massive vac leak? Or the motor mounts allow the engine to move a bit and a rubber intake boot that is ripped opens up?

None of those.

truly only when the wheels are rolling. No other inputs can cause the issue or make it go away.

Like I said, the problem completely goes away if the speedometer is disconnected. That's how I drive the thing every day. Idle is rock solid.

Is there a speed sensor connected to the transmission, like a VSS or something?

You could jack the front wheels up and put it in gear to see if the issue is caused by the front wheels turning or if it's somehow sensing something from the rear wheels.

volvoclearinghouse wrote: Is there a speed sensor connected to the transmission, like a VSS or something? You could jack the front wheels up and put it in gear to see if the issue is caused by the front wheels turning or if it's somehow sensing something from the rear wheels.

You can't make this up, and I suspect it's because you could get a fuel injected or carburated Accord that year, but here is how it works:

The speedometer is driven by a twisty cable screwing into the back, just like every ancient vehicle ever.

The speedometer has a geared disc which spins around and around.

The speed sensor watches this disc, and brings the signal... places.

Disconnecting said speed sensor did nothing, replacing with known good did nothing, replacing with known good and not attaching to magic spinny disc did nothing.

Disconnecting the mechanical twisty speedometer cable did the trick, other than "not having a speedo or cruise now" issues.

Bad ground to the speedometer mounted sensor??

I think the cluster might be bad (or the magic spinny disk). Because:

Disconnecting said speed sensor did nothing, replacing with known good did nothing, replacing with known good and not attaching to magic spinny disc did nothing.

All of these could say: "ecu not getting a normal speed sensor signal" (which is probably a digital sine wave, always open or always closed are both abnormal).

Edit, speed sensor signal could go back through the cluster and may not be the 'only' thing in the speed sensing circuit.

Robbie wrote: I think the cluster might be bad (or the magic spinny disk). Because: Disconnecting said speed sensor did nothing, replacing with known good did nothing, replacing with known good and not attaching to magic spinny disc did nothing. All of these could say: "ecu not getting a normal speed sensor signal" (which is probably a digital sine wave, always open or always closed are both abnormal).

I thought about that, but if the sensor was good, and not near the spinny disc, wouldn't it just return a "hey this thing's not moving, boss" signal to the ECU? Otherwise I tend to agree that some other circuitry in the cluster is messing with me.

dculberson wrote: Bad ground to the speedometer mounted sensor??

I mean, maybe. Honda wiring is usually pretty good, and the connector looks fine and the pins all seem good, and it did die just while I was driving down the road. Maybe?

This may be unrelated but it's in the odd-things-wrong-in-a-thirty-one-year-old-Honda category.

My 1986 Prelude Si has a semi-functional speedometer. It works, accurately too, but only when the parking brake handle is raised just far enough for its' dash warning light to come on. Put the handle down fully and the speedo is dead. I suspect something electrical in the dash that somehow connects the speedo sensor and brake light sensor, but I honestly don't know enough about the system to go in too deep.

There are plenty of issues with the cluster, anyway, but parts are so damn hard to find I'm afraid of diving into it and breaking something that is NLA or made of unobtanium.

Either way, we both have old-Honda speedometer problems that may, or may not, be related.

Could it be a bad solder joints on the printed circuit board?

I know that was commin on main relay for hinda and everything for neons and obs chevy.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

I guess that's possible but it suggests that somewhere on the board a circuit is shared by the speedo and the p-brake light and when the light is triggered it supplies current to the speedo.

shrug then le sigh...

And they say the Brits can't figure out electricity...

I was thinking about tunas speedo. May be a shared power on the prelude as well.

I tried some other stuff. The 3Geez Facebook group has been very responsive and helpful. The spinny disc reader has a connector, leaving that unplugged, or plugging it in and leaving it unable to read the spinny disc still results in the same behavior. They pointed out that there is another board with a yellow connector that does some form of post processing before sending the speed data off. Unplugging it also does not change the behavior. Here is where it gets weirder.

The board which everyone showed me has one diode on it. Nothing else. It's a 3ish"x3"ish board with all sorts of stuff all blank, and one single diode.

Mine has a bunch of circuitry. Capacitors, resistors, diodes blah blah. Theirs doesn't.

Anyway, I can't really find a spare and unplugging it doesn't help.

In other news, amongst several pages of honey-do list items, I did go back into my seat and was going to remove the foam I added, and rely solely on the sewed-up OEM foam when I had a though, so instead I cut out a Tuna-width of it, and left the bolsters I added and put it all back together.

WOW, it works! I am actually pretty comfy now. I mean, it's not up the ergonomic and stylistic standards of, let's say, a 1998 Sentra, but it's miles ahead of where it was, and even ahead of where it was before I messed with it.

So I got that going for me, which is nice.

The last few weeks I have been thinking that the battery is dying because it won't start without a jump or a bump occasionally. I mean, it's a 2 1/2 year old lawn mower battery, so I am not surprised nor upset by this. But I was wrong.

I was camping with the kids this weekend, and boy, the trails that poor car had to go through to get to the campsite were hilarious fun. I would have gone way faster had I any idea of where I was going and had there not been a hundred other kids walking around there. But back to the point, I am driving home afterwards, in an incredibly smelly car with four unshowered males, and I hear this weird squeaking coming from behind me, so I tell Tunakid #2 to see if he can figure it out while we drive. he begins pushing on things and hitting things and such, and he says "Dad, it's like the whole door" - yeah whatever, kid, thanks for playing.

So... I got home and noticed this.

So, the door was loose, and the dome light was staying on?  

In reply to volvoclearinghouse :

Yes. The door can't really be closed, exactly. This is more of a problem because the seat belt is attached to the door.

I've got a white coupe door you can have, if you are coming to the challenge or can figure out a way to get it to you. Obviously too big to ship.

I'll just weld it up, but thanks for the help... and the other thing.