So I drilled 4 holes this afternoon to fit the e46 camber plates. I also picked up a cheap set of plates that has caster adjustment, but probably won't use them for the GRM challenge due to budget.
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Garagistic has been slashing prices for black friday, so I snatched up a set of delrin control arm bushings, rear subframe mounts/bushings, and diff bushings. For some reason they shipped me two sets of control arm bushings, so I get to knock $15 off the budget. Yeehaw!
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Did some more measuring last night for the m10 flywheel swap. I noticed the m42 starter bolts directly to the bellhousing, but the m10 bolts to the block AND the bellhousing. This means the m10 starter has about 7.25mm more protrusion into the trans when used on the m42 Getrag 240. Either I put a 7mm spacer between the starter or try to use the m42 and hope for the best, or go back to swapping ring gears? Either way I have some thinking to do.
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
I've been plugging away jumping from one task to the next to try to stay busy. The motor is all sealed up now, but I still need to paint the header side of the block and finish cleaning the oil pans. Speaking of oil pans, I spent a few minutes trimming for front subframe clearance.
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
I also started cutting the strut housings down 2 inches. Of course as soon as I start to tack the second one in place I run out of welding wire. I'll pick some more up today and get them finished up tonight with the spring perches.
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
I also scored this 1.75" roll bar hoop for $43.69 from Amazon that's intended for a Mustang II but looks like it will fit almost perfect. It's ERW which is kind of a bummer, but for a budget built 4 point I think think this is a good starting point. For anyone interested it's from Competition Engineering part number C3126 but bear in mind it's fairly thick walled and has some weight to it. Patrick from this fine forum was the one who brought it to my attention, and I'm forever grateful as I was worried about putting in the cage within budget constraints. The track days I want to do leading up to the Challenge may or may not require the cage, but I just feel better knowing with a fixed back seat and harness that I'll be better off with one in play. I'll try to source some pieces of 1.75" locally to save on shipping for the rear legs, cross bar, and harness bar. Still can't believe this hunk of metal was bent and then shipped for only $43.69!
I will mention the legs kick inward at a slight angle, but nothing crazy. I'll build some short plinth boxes at 1-2" tall for these to weld to, and raise it up closer to the roofline. That little bump in height puts the bend profiles in line with the B pillar perfectly as well.
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
I tossed some 2x4's under the legs and the roof to B pillar profile is just amazing.
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
That rollbar is a great find, it looks like we can even get some of them in Canada through amazon.ca with free shipping. Summit lists dimensions as well for the various models to help figure out which one could work in different vehicles.
Keep it up on the E21!
Adam
adam525i said:
That rollbar is a great find, it looks like we can even get some of them in Canada through amazon.ca with free shipping. Summit lists dimensions as well for the various models to help figure out which one could work in different vehicles.
Keep it up on the E21!
Adam
Yeah, I can't thank Patrick enough for posting about those in his Wartburg thread. I really didn't think I would be able to get a cage built for challenge budget without finding or buying a bender. It still blows my mind that it was shipped so cheaply. I looked a few minutes ago to see if the model I got is available and it appears to be out of stock. It may have just be stuff on closeout.
I managed to put some cheap $1 Lowes spray paint on the subframe, replaced tie rods, and press in the new delrin control arm bushings. Unfortunately the QC or parts creation for these with Garagistic is lacking. The ID for the factory bushings is 16mm and the Garagistic stuff is almost 1/2 a mm too small, so I've got a drill bit on the way to open up the holes to fit properly. If things go pear shaped I'll default back to the factory bushings and fill them with window weld since they popped out without a fuss. The OD of the bushings is a smidge too large as well, so I'm not sure they were worth buying even at the low price. Comparing them to the poly set I bought, they appear to all have the same issues.
Anyway, the strut housings have been welded back, I just need to put a collar on each strut to hold the ebay adjuster sleeves. The plan is to get the car back to roller status by the end of the week if the drill bit shows up in time. I leave on the 13th for a trip to Punta Cana and return right before Christmas, so not much will be happening for a bit.
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
You can see the threads wanted to cut into the inner sleeve, and the material that squished out when pressing them in.
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Broken caliper piston on the passenger side. Oreilly has a reman unit dropping to my house tomorrow, hopefully it's the correct ATE version, or just e21 specific.
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After way too much time fiddling, I managed to finish up the front coilovers minus some paint. The cheapo camber plates clear the ebay coilover strut tops just perfect. The total cut from strut housings was 2", pvc spacers under the struts were about 3", and the sleeve ring is from some bent up 3/16" x 3/4" flat stock. The ebay sleeves fit nice and snug with the rubber o-rings, and so far don't spin when performing adjustments. I've got some 450lb springs up front right now, but I think the ebay springs will have to do for the challenge. Budget is getting tight with the nickel/dime stuff so the delrin rear subframe bushings will probably have to be swapped out for some modified stock ones to help as well. Front wheel bearings are showing up soon hopefully as well as my 16mm drill bit so I can get this thing back to roller status. I'm hoping to roll the beast outside on a somewhat warm day to scrub the engine bay and get it paint ready. I doubt the weather will cooperate enough for that though.
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
In reply to captainawesome :
So, learn me... What is the downside to that hoop being ERW?
AWSX1686 said:
In reply to captainawesome :
So, learn me... What is the downside to that hoop being ERW?
I'm not an expert, but I believe the "possibility" of it splitting at the weld seam when in a collision. DOM is the preferred material, but honestly I don't think it matters much in my application other than the weight penalty of thicker material. From my cursory reading most sanctioning bodies allow ERW but it has to be a thicker material than the DOM equivalent. Weight then becomes main motivator for using DOM.
captainawesome said:
AWSX1686 said:
In reply to captainawesome :
So, learn me... What is the downside to that hoop being ERW?
I'm not an expert, but I believe the "possibility" of it splitting at the weld seam when in a collision. DOM is the preferred material, but honestly I don't think it matters much in my application other than the weight penalty of thicker material. From my cursory reading most sanctioning bodies allow ERW but it has to be a thicker material than the DOM equivalent. Weight then becomes main motivator for using DOM.
Ahhh, so these are not DOM. Didn't realize that. That makes the pricing slightly less crazy. Still cheap though!
I'll have to look into DOM vs ERW a bit more.
AWSX1686 said:
captainawesome said:
AWSX1686 said:
In reply to captainawesome :
So, learn me... What is the downside to that hoop being ERW?
I'm not an expert, but I believe the "possibility" of it splitting at the weld seam when in a collision. DOM is the preferred material, but honestly I don't think it matters much in my application other than the weight penalty of thicker material. From my cursory reading most sanctioning bodies allow ERW but it has to be a thicker material than the DOM equivalent. Weight then becomes main motivator for using DOM.
Ahhh, so these are not DOM. Didn't realize that. That makes the pricing slightly less crazy. Still cheap though!
I'll have to look into DOM vs ERW a bit more.
Honestly the price point is still pretty insane considering the size and weight of this thing when figuring in shipping cost. If you try to buy a 7 ft stick of non-bent material just about anywhere of the same thickness will just be slightly less than $40. If you have a local circle track supplier they probably have some in stock for a better price though. That's my plan for the rest of the material needed that won't require bends.
captainawesome said:
AWSX1686 said:
captainawesome said:
AWSX1686 said:
In reply to captainawesome :
So, learn me... What is the downside to that hoop being ERW?
I'm not an expert, but I believe the "possibility" of it splitting at the weld seam when in a collision. DOM is the preferred material, but honestly I don't think it matters much in my application other than the weight penalty of thicker material. From my cursory reading most sanctioning bodies allow ERW but it has to be a thicker material than the DOM equivalent. Weight then becomes main motivator for using DOM.
Ahhh, so these are not DOM. Didn't realize that. That makes the pricing slightly less crazy. Still cheap though!
I'll have to look into DOM vs ERW a bit more.
Honestly the price point is still pretty insane considering the size and weight of this thing when figuring in shipping cost. If you try to buy a 7 ft stick of non-bent material just about anywhere of the same thickness will just be slightly less than $40. If you have a local circle track supplier they probably have some in stock for a better price though. That's my plan for the rest of the material needed that won't require bends.
The price point considering free shipping is insane.
Learned a bit more about ERW vs DOM. DOM started life as ERW and then was further processed. Sounds like either one is allowed in roll cage building, but the wall thickness requirement might be different as you mentioned. Have to look into rules a bit farther.
This video shows some differences, but it does seem like it takes quite a distance (more than any tube in a cage) to see ill effects. It looked like he was using some pretty small diameter tube as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=154&v=buu3Ytubp1s
In reply to captainawesome :
Actually according to the SCCA rule book ERW tubing is not allowed. NHRA doesn't seem to care.
My rebuilt caliper came in, so I loaded the pads for both and didn't touch the car for almost a week. Last night I packed and installed new front wheel bearings without much fuss. I don't know why, but I really enjoy the refresh process of brakes and bearings. Anyway, there was some black spray paint leftover, so I sprayed the water pump and crank pulleys to give it a little bump in the looks department. I'm still waiting on my 16mm drill bit. Not happy about that, but it's obvious the front end will not be assembled anytime soon. Tomorrow AM I'm headed to Punta Cana for 7 days, and with holidays being crazy I would be lucky to get much done at all.
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
How do you like the rebuilt caliper/where'd you source it? I'm going to need a FR replacement soon.
I haven't completely forgotten about checking on my springs for you, just happen to forget every time I'm at the shop.
Enjoy the warmth!
AxeHealey said:
How do you like the rebuilt caliper/where'd you source it? I'm going to need a FR replacement soon.
I haven't completely forgotten about checking on my springs for you, just happen to forget every time I'm at the shop.
Enjoy the warmth!
The caliper was from O'reilly, but was the only ATE in stock. Shipping was decent, and the core charge was so small I'll keep my crummy one for a spare. From what I could find in my searches there were only a couple other places that even had any in stock, and they were a little pricey. There are plenty of Girling ones to be had if that's okay with you, they just use a different guide pin setup. I've had a mismatched pair before, and it always bothered me that the hardware was different between them. I chose the ATE just because my driver side looks recently rebuilt, and I eventually want to get a set that can be used with vented rotors. From what I can tell it looks to be decent, but until I put some fluid through the system I won't know. If you want to go vented rotors, find a set of calipers from a 77 320i or any 323. They have a spacer that spreads the caliper out wide enough to allow the thicker rotor. The rotor itself is from a 323 and is a bolt on affair. You can also do the Volvo calipers up front, but they dramatically give a front brake bias that I don't think makes much sense.
Yeah I'm curious what you are running spring wise. Right now I have 450# up front and 364# rear with no rear sway bar. The ebay springs I think are closer to 500# and 325# from my calculations, but that's just going to have to work for the challenge.
Do you have a front "Alpina" bar? It ties the front frame rails together where the front sway bar brackets bolt up.
My car actually has the early subframe/brakes and thus the ability to run vented rotors. I was unaware of this when I first ordered brakes and bushings and went non-vented. I'll be going back to the vented next time around.
I'll be back at the shop on Saturday and will do my damndest to remember to check the springs.
In regards to the Alpina bar - have to be honest and tell you I had no idea such a thing even existed. I.E. sells them for $80, should have put it on my x-mas list. Have you heard whether it really helps? Is there any data on +% rigidity?
AxeHealey said:
My car actually has the early subframe/brakes and thus the ability to run vented rotors. I was unaware of this when I first ordered brakes and bushings and went non-vented. I'll be going back to the vented next time around.
I'll be back at the shop on Saturday and will do my damndest to remember to check the springs.
In regards to the Alpina bar - have to be honest and tell you I had no idea such a thing even existed. I.E. sells them for $80, should have put it on my x-mas list. Have you heard whether it really helps? Is there any data on +% rigidity?
I believe the only difference between vented/non-vented calipers is a spacer between the two halves. They bolt up to all strut assemblies the same. Do you still have the vented calipers? If so what is the width of the spacer? I've contemplated making my own spacers if I can't drum up a factory set. The front right ATE is still in stock at Oreilly, but no passenger ones so you may want to snatch it up sooner than later.
The Alpina bar is supposed to be a similar mod to a strut brace. Helps chassis rigidity, but as far as the data on how much it helps, I doubt there's any numbers to analyze out there. I am just going to make my own and probably weld it in versus a bolt in one. It's just a tube tying the front framehorns together, so not much to it. With your fab skills it wouldn't require much effort to whip one up. I've read that IE has struggled to ship them at the correct lengths recently, and that's kinda silly. If you do order one, send them your bolt to bolt measurement so they don't get the wrong part sent out.
I didn't change the calipers. I just figure the cylinders come out slightly more. It brakes well and straight so I haven't given it much thought. It won't be this weekend but I'll take pictures of what I've got. I also have a Girling on one side and ATE on the other by the way and yes, it drives me crazy. I'm just too cheap to change while it's working.
I read the same thing about the IE units - that really surprised me. Making one and welding it in is the route I'll take if I decide to do it. I'm just curious whether I would even notice a difference seeing as though I've already got a strut brace. I suppose if Alpina decided it was necessary it probably was. I wonder if the Group 2 cars do it?
The springs on my car are Eibach. 450# up front and 250# in the back.
AxeHealey said:
The springs on my car are Eibach. 450# up front and 250# in the back.
That’s close to what I’ll be starting out with I think. I have 450 up front and 300-364 for the rear. I don’t plan to run the rear sway bar for right now so the higher spring rate should help counteract that. Is your setup Ground Control?
You're probably right. The rear of my car with the softer springs seemed much happier this season with the sway bar.
Not Ground Control, no. It's one of those make-your-own coilover kits with Bilsteins. Like the picture below but there's no brand marking anywhere.
So I'm back from the Dominican Republic from some much needed R&R. I definitely came back with a heavy dose of motivation for the e21. My 16mm drill bit was here when I got back, so I immediately reamed out the undersized Garagistic control arm bushings and assembled the front subframe assembly. Once the sway bar was attached it was immediately obvious it was in desperate need of some cheap spray paint. I managed to snap pictures up until that point and then just a flurry of parts ended up installed. New rotors, studs loctited in, calipers installed, new soft brake lines, and of course the subframe. I set the springs at the lowest adjustment on the assembly and dropped the car down from the jack stands. It tucks a tall 13" tire without an engine and trans, so the adjustment will probably be a couple inches higher than it is now. I'm just stoked to be back to roller status so I can clean the engine bay up some and get ready to start on the rear suspension stuff.
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
captainawesome said:
My rebuilt caliper came in, so I loaded the pads for both and didn't touch the car for almost a week. Last night I packed and installed new front wheel bearings without much fuss. I don't know why, but I really enjoy the refresh process of brakes and bearings. Anyway, there was some black spray paint leftover, so I sprayed the water pump and crank pulleys to give it a little bump in the looks department. I'm still waiting on my 16mm drill bit. Not happy about that, but it's obvious the front end will not be assembled anytime soon. Tomorrow AM I'm headed to Punta Cana for 7 days, and with holidays being crazy I would be lucky to get much done at all.
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
man, I remember all those years ago when my M42 looked that pretty when I was prepping it for my e21 swap (which I never completed)....
irish44j said:
captainawesome said:
My rebuilt caliper came in, so I loaded the pads for both and didn't touch the car for almost a week. Last night I packed and installed new front wheel bearings without much fuss. I don't know why, but I really enjoy the refresh process of brakes and bearings. Anyway, there was some black spray paint leftover, so I sprayed the water pump and crank pulleys to give it a little bump in the looks department. I'm still waiting on my 16mm drill bit. Not happy about that, but it's obvious the front end will not be assembled anytime soon. Tomorrow AM I'm headed to Punta Cana for 7 days, and with holidays being crazy I would be lucky to get much done at all.
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
man, I remember all those years ago when my M42 looked that pretty when I was prepping it for my e21 swap (which I never completed)....
I don't think mine is nearly as well done as yours at it's current state. It's one of those "good enough" jobs at the moment.
