a V8 MGB? HERE???? no wai

For those of you who have not "met" petey, he is one of the 3 or 4 Petes to be found working in my shop on any number of harebrained car projects. A few MGB resuscitations, One Healey 100, the Molvo, the Challenge 302 Volvo 740 and his wild 4 cam Volvo 760 blown wagon and the 1950 F2 truck  to name a few.

Concurrent to petey's MGB project in his own garage( that will be completed with parts that he probably carries around in his pockets) you might see in my shop, courtesy of peteys imagination, a Morris Minor get a Honda drivetrain shoved into the back seat. Cause why not?

All done on a Grassroots budget.

Keith Tanner said:

Which LT1?

My MGB was pretty awful when I started. It may have been predictable for 1971, but it was no match for a modern chassis with stuff like stamped steel control arms and tube shocks.

Those old fashioned lever arm shocks have one thing modern tube shocks can't do.  You can change the fluid to change  the handling.  I use motorcycle fork oil but that's not your only choice.  
     One trick I will do is use really thick fluid ( 60 wt ) to see if stiffer springs help or hinder  corner time.  Then I'll go the complete opposite way to see if softer springs help or hinder.   Slow acting shocks with thick oil act like stiff springs. Fast acting shocks act like soft springs. 
If the geometry works  I found I'm faster with soft springs and stiff swaybars. Then I can adjust the shocks according to what the track surface is like. 
    Realize that a MG has about a 50 inch wide track, a lot more narrow than most American cars.  That both helps and hurts. Narrow gives less frontal area than a wide so with a given horsepower your top speed will be faster. Plus high speed acceleration will improve. 
One final advantage a wider car travels further going around a corner than a narrow car. 
It hurts in that it tends to roll more and transfer more weight to the outside tire.  Stiff rollbars  help with that.  
     

Stonkin' V8 will lower that frontend quite effectively. In for the ride.

frenchyd said:

Keith Tanner said:

Which LT1?

My MGB was pretty awful when I started. It may have been predictable for 1971, but it was no match for a modern chassis with stuff like stamped steel control arms and tube shocks.

Those old fashioned lever arm shocks have one thing modern tube shocks can't do.  You can change the fluid to change  the handling.  I use motorcycle fork oil but that's not your only choice.  
     One trick I will do is use really thick fluid ( 60 wt ) to see if stiffer springs help or hinder  corner time.  Then I'll go the complete opposite way to see if softer springs help or hinder.   Slow acting shocks with thick oil act like stiff springs. Fast acting shocks act like soft springs. 
If the geometry works  I found I'm faster with soft springs and stiff swaybars. Then I can adjust the shocks according to what the track surface is like. 
    Realize that a MG has about a 50 inch wide track, a lot more narrow than most American cars.  That both helps and hurts. Narrow gives less frontal area than a wide so with a given horsepower your top speed will be faster. Plus high speed acceleration will improve. 
One final advantage a wider car travels further going around a corner than a narrow car. 
It hurts in that it tends to roll more and transfer more weight to the outside tire.  Stiff rollbars  help with that.  
     

Using shocks as springs only works in transition, FYI. You can change the fluid in modern tube shocks, too - what do you think motorcycle forks are? And you can revalve them, and change their pressures, and adjust needle valves, and...

Small cars, I should try that ;)

NOHOME said:

For those of you who have not "met" petey, he is one of the 3 or 4 Petes to be found working in my shop on any number of harebrained car projects. A few MGB resuscitations, One Healey 100, the Molvo, the Challenge 302 Volvo 740 and his wild 4 cam Volvo 760 blown wagon and the 1950 F2 truck  to name a few.

 

Concurrent to petey's MGB project in his own garage( that will be completed with parts that he probably carries around in his pockets) you might see in my shop, courtesy of peteys imagination, a Morris Minor get a Honda drivetrain shoved into the back seat. Cause why not?

All done on a Grassroots budget.

I'm assuming that the budget fibre is hydrodipped?

Keith Tanner said:

frenchyd said:

Keith Tanner said:

Which LT1?

My MGB was pretty awful when I started. It may have been predictable for 1971, but it was no match for a modern chassis with stuff like stamped steel control arms and tube shocks.

Those old fashioned lever arm shocks have one thing modern tube shocks can't do.  You can change the fluid to change  the handling.  I use motorcycle fork oil but that's not your only choice.  
     One trick I will do is use really thick fluid ( 60 wt ) to see if stiffer springs help or hinder  corner time.  Then I'll go the complete opposite way to see if softer springs help or hinder.   Slow acting shocks with thick oil act like stiff springs. Fast acting shocks act like soft springs. 
If the geometry works  I found I'm faster with soft springs and stiff swaybars. Then I can adjust the shocks according to what the track surface is like. 
    Realize that a MG has about a 50 inch wide track, a lot more narrow than most American cars.  That both helps and hurts. Narrow gives less frontal area than a wide so with a given horsepower your top speed will be faster. Plus high speed acceleration will improve. 
One final advantage a wider car travels further going around a corner than a narrow car. 
It hurts in that it tends to roll more and transfer more weight to the outside tire.  Stiff rollbars  help with that.  
     

Using shocks as springs only works in transition, FYI. You can change the fluid in modern tube shocks, too. And you can revalve them, and change their pressures, and adjust needle valves, and...

Small cars, I should try that.

Yes you are right. It only works in transition but if you try it it sure gives you a solid indication of which way to go spring rate wise.  
  Yes I've kludged tube shocks doing the same thing.  But if you mess up and let a little drill filings get in the chambers you nearly instantly have failed shocks. Lever arms have the fill hole already in them. 

You don't need to drill tube shocks to work on them, not if they're designed to be rebuildable as any good performance shock should be. It's just a matter of unscrewing the top and pulling the valve assembly out. Not klugey at all, that's how they're designed to be maintained.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Nothing so ridiculously expensive. I will let the inventor explain  if he wants, cause I giggle every time he does it. I tell ya, petey is the embodiment of grassroots.

Keith Tanner said:

You don't need to drill tube shocks to work on them, not if they're designed to be rebuildable as any good performance shock should be. It's just a matter of unscrewing the top and pulling the valve assembly out. Not klugey at all, that's how they're designed to be maintained.

Performance shock and cheap aren't even in the same dictionary. 
  
First time I did it I used stock shocks, drilled 'em, drained 'em, filled 'em. Then used a self tapping screw and silicone sealant. They worked. Well,  5 of the six worked  and I just grabbed another one and had better luck. 

frenchyd said:

Keith Tanner said:

You don't need to drill tube shocks to work on them, not if they're designed to be rebuildable as any good performance shock should be. It's just a matter of unscrewing the top and pulling the valve assembly out. Not klugey at all, that's how they're designed to be maintained.

Performance shock and cheap aren't even in the same dictionary. 
  
First time I did it I used stock shocks, drilled 'em, drained 'em, filled 'em. Then used a self tapping screw and silicone sealant. They worked. Well,  5 of the six worked  and I just grabbed another one and had better luck. 

This is the first time that "cheap" has been mentioned as a necessary parameter in rebuilding race shocks. But you can rebuild Konis, so I don't know how cheap we need to go here. If you're using Monroes for race shocks, well, yes. That's setting the bar very low in every possible way. 

I live in Houston.  A guy in a MGB GT passed me.  Car had a nice rumble. 

License plate was.... "MGB V8".    

I tried to get a picture at the next stop light but he got through before me.

Keith Tanner said:

frenchyd said:

Keith Tanner said:

You don't need to drill tube shocks to work on them, not if they're designed to be rebuildable as any good performance shock should be. It's just a matter of unscrewing the top and pulling the valve assembly out. Not klugey at all, that's how they're designed to be maintained.

Performance shock and cheap aren't even in the same dictionary. 
  
First time I did it I used stock shocks, drilled 'em, drained 'em, filled 'em. Then used a self tapping screw and silicone sealant. They worked. Well,  5 of the six worked  and I just grabbed another one and had better luck. 

This is the first time that "cheap" has been mentioned as a necessary parameter in rebuilding race shocks. But you can rebuild Konis, so I don't know how cheap we need to go here. If you're using Monroes for race shocks, well, yes. That's setting the bar very low in every possible way. 

My Bad. I naturally think cheap when I think GRM. Not cheap as in poorly done, rather cheap as in achieve at nominal cost.  I like the whole premise of budget limited racing.  Sort of Can Am  for the restricted budget. 
The $2000 Challenge is that,  budget limited rather than rules limited. If they could only go wheel to wheel. Just a short 5 lap race where driver skill played a part.  ( on top of whatever you brought). 
Same with LeMons and Champ Car. I just wish  they didn't need multiple drivers.  Short sessions to qualify?  
        I've bought and modified race shocks. It is so much better to be able to adjust Jounce and rebound without removing the shock.  However, Lacking a shock tester I'm probably really crude about my adjustments.  
       I also played with spring rates of my torsion bars by trading ride height for spring rate. Rather than the more proper way of swapping bars. 

im swapping the shocks all around for tubulars.got a pair of KYB mustang 2  pieces for the front,already drew out the fuggery to mount them,and rears are easy as hell(i have a grinder and a welder.and an imagination.) i rebuilt the front end and used urethane bushings on all of it and realized 1 front shock worked and the other had the equivalent of a 2 foot hole in it when fresh fork oil fired out and decorated my welder cart.yup she's dickered...not gonna mess with them lever action dildettes

as to the bargain fiber...so you first paint the offending piece flat black,then lay a strip of dollar store shelf liner (perforated mit kleine quadrate) and hit it with graphite grey rattle can.or shift up the colors and get a little freaky,it works and i recommend it

oh and as to the handling discussion as pertains to an MGB with a V8...petey no care

petey is used to Mustangs with an obscene NAY immoral power output(at least in my younger days)...and having grown up on the mean streets of Canada and learning to drift the old fashioned way i'm used to driving looking oot the side windows.other than the tube shocks the lil turd will get ZERO handling enhancements.first with a 240 hp 5.0 then with whatever else i want to dump in there.stooooopid power plus inadequate chassis design can only lead to an entertaining drive in my opinion.

 ...fender on my 86 Ranger 5.0. yes it was painted outside in a sandstorm.

Updates? Longtime lurker I registered just to be able to post on this build. I am thinking of doing the same with a 351 Windsor and a 1975 mg that is for sale locally. So please keep posting.

its sitting outside in the snow.engine is built and ready to go in,but then i just got a customer S10 V8 swap in the shop. whats coming out is a stroked 2.8(up to a 3.4) with Fiero GT heads,crane cam,roller rockers,edelbrock intake...thinking to put it in instead,with a T5.if i cant FIND a T5 then the 302 goes in

looks like an easy in,and ill just fab my own headers as that seems to be the only difficult part.got the oil filter reloction kit,using a double hump oil pan,a points distributor,good weiand intake and a holley 600.dead simple motor,all fresh bearings heads shaved etc etc

351W will fit just as easy,maybe easier cuz the heads are an inch higher and header fab probably easier.but a hood scoop will definitely be needed while with a 302 maybe not

petey said:

oh and as to the handling discussion as pertains to an MGB with a V8...petey no care

.other than the tube shocks the lil turd will get ZERO handling enhancements.first with a 240 hp 5.0 then with whatever else i want to dump in there.stooooopid power plus inadequate chassis design can only lead to an entertaining drive in my opinion.

Do you have brake upgrades in mind??

hell no.i like to party

just kidding.havent done any research on upgrades yet,but i did find that the new rotors for my volvo 740 fit the MGB spindles with a 3/16" washer in behind it.so a bit wider, vented...looks easy to fab a caliper bracket to put maybe an SN95 mustang caliper on it,twin piston PBRs,theyre cheap and everywhere.for the back who knows

pulled the v6 out of the donor today,then slammed it on the stand and ripped it down.thing's like new inside,it was rebuilt in 2010 with a crane cam and a bunch of other goodies,so id think aboot 170 hp with the 3.4 kit in it.ought to be a sweet little motor for the golf cart (as i call it)

2.8 stroked to 3.4.all stripped now and it's in phenomenal shape.bores bearings everything skookum but a slightly floppy timing chain.parts are on the way

I thought the MGB was getting a 302?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoLBLY9EHB4

Might help with the tilt column you need to change the lock on.

Racingsnake said:

I thought the MGB was getting a 302?

Might still if the 2.8 isn't chooch enough