eXpanding my horizons - Fiat content

I love this forum, and yet I also hate this forum. While model specific forums die off, this group thrives. You all are some of the biggest enablers I have ever met! I was encouraged to post my truck here, and I did. I got sucked in and now you are stuck with me.

I have too many projects, but in the throws of silly season I decided I needed to experience more of the automotive world. How can I call myself an enthusiast having owned mostly Fords, and done the majority of my real modifying on only two models(Fox Tbirds and Rangers)? Sure I have had a couple small cars here or there; notably a Pinto and a CRX, but my go-to purchases have always been mid-size cars and compact trucks. Never have I ever owned anything that fit the true definition of a sports car. Certainly not anything with the engine in the middle...

So, here we go, thanks to GRM I now own an X-1/9.

It was listed back in the fall, and I exchanged several emails with the PO at that time. When it was relisted last month, I had to jump on it. I haven't seen the car yet, but this pic was sent to me after it was loaded up and the transaction completed. It should be dropped off next weekend by my friend who lives closer to TN than I, and was also headed up here to grab a Tbird shell from me anyhow.

I have been doing some diggin on Xweb where the PO hung out and learning some history on the car beyond the mod list he sent to me. A quick chassis break down involves drop springs, upgraded rear brakes, and a sway bar. The engine includes several neat bits like shaved head, aftermarket cam, header, lightweight flywheel, etc. Unfortunately the engine is hurt, but many spares were included in the purchase package.

To be completely honest, I have not settled on a final outcome for this car. I have never purchased a car sight unseen, and I am dually excited and frightened to see what I have gotten myself into. First order of business will be getting it back on the road. I am hopeful there will be enough good parts between what is already installed and what is in the spares pile to make that much happen. I am registered for HRPT 2018, and my son(11yo) has decided we are taking this car, so I know that much at least.

Love X1/9's, will be watching closely to see where you go with this.  If you have not driven one, you will be happy with the outcome, they are quite fun in the corners!

Sounds like with a goal for HRPT 2018, you will be fixing the engine and not doing anything too radical, this one looks too good to cut up anyway. I have been "bench" building one of these up with a more modern engine swap for many years, surprised no one has looked to see if an MR2 engine/transmission could be used, as a 4AGE would double power and reliability. But that would be scope creep, so get it running and report on your progress.

In typical fashion, I too have mentally built this car several times over since discovering it in the classifieds last fall. It seems that many of those who swap to a more modern drivetrain have gone the Honda route, but I am not one to follow well trodden paths. I have entertained several thoughts including 2zz, Mazda BP(like your Spitfire), or 4g63, or.... Scope creep is always a reality in my projects and I need to decide if this car is a long term keeper for me before I get silly.

As such, stage1 is going to be fix what is there and get some seat time in the car. Keep the creep to a minimum and have fun on HRPT. At that point, I should have enough feel for the car to lay out a path forward.

Aw yes! Another X1/9 in the GRM family. Here's mine: Mezzanine's Exxie

You said the current engine is hurt. Can you elaborate? I'd encourage you to get a few miles on the car with the current power plant if possible. I've spent countless hours pondering swaps for mine too, but I'm currently going to give the Lampredi mill a chance. If I was actually home some weeks I could make progress.

So are you nervous buying an old Italian sight unseen?

I fully intend to experience the car for what it is before making any decisions on a direction to go with it. I have never even sat in an X-1/9!

The details I was given on the hurt engine are whitish smoke during a short drive, limped home with engine temp rising, and engine locked up at idle in the driveway. Roughly 800 miles on the rebuild. Once it gets here, I will confirm the details and investigate. There is a complete spare 1500 engine and another cylinder head. The spare engine is supposed to have Probe pistons and big valves. The installed engine has a handful of upgrades as well. Hopefully I will have enough good pieces to assemble a functional lump and get the car back on the road

gumby said:

I fully intend to experience the car for what it is before making any decisions on what direction to go with it. I have never even sat in an X-1/9!

The details I was given on the hurt engine are whitish smoke during a short drive, limped home with engine temp rising, and engine locked up at idle in the driveway. Roughly 800 miles on the rebuild. Once it gets here, I will confirm the details and investigate. There is a complete spare 1500 engine and another cylinder head. The spare engine is supposed to have Probe pistons and big valves. The installed engine has a handful of upgrades as well. Hopefully I will have enough good pieces to assemble a functional lump and get the car back on the road

Sounds like the headgasket might have been installed wrong.  It will be interesting to see what you find when you pull it down.

When you go to pull it out, drop the entire drivetrain out the bottom after yanking the rear control arms.  It will be much easier, plus you can more easily clean and verify everything is in good shape.

If you run heavy duty springs and dampers (which may happen if you keep it) you may find that the strut tops mushroom, so there was someone on XWeb selling stainless steel strut doublers.

Like many euro cars from the 70's ground points are prone to corrosion and causing issues.  The Fiat runs quite a lot of current through the ignition, headlight and wiper switches, so adding relays and keeping the heavy current off of those reduces a number of common issues there (look up Brown wire mod).

There are some threads on improving the amount of space behind the wheel, so that might help depending on how large/tall you are.

If you can find some earlier "dual rail" bumpers, you can cut them down to single rail bumpers and tuck them in a little.  They are lighter and much better looking at that point, search Mittlestead Bumpers on Xweb.  Of course the holy grail for many are the 74 split bumpers, but those are damned rare and require a lot of work to fit.

Thanks to Fiat coming back to the US, wheel options are little better now, but they are huge in diameter compared to the stock size wheels.  You can get "wobble bolts" to install 4x100 wheels on the 4x98 bolt pattern.

Looks like a fun project!  I wish I still had mine, but it was already rusted through at the windshield base, so while I got it for free, it had to move on down the road.  Mezzanine received some of the leftover parts from that project, so its soul lives on :)

Thanks for the info! 80's Fords were similar in that they tended to overload headlight and ignition switches, so I am familiar with the circumstance. I believe the BWM has already been done on this car along with some other wire removal and harness clean up. It was used as a trackday/autoX car and has had some weight reduction stuff done including A/C and radio removal along with the associated wiring. I plan to go over it again, and will be sure to pay attention to the grounds.

I will be looking into the strut doublers as well since the car already has lowering coils. I am not sure if these are stock replacement dampers or upgraded

I am going to swap the street tires onto the old school turbine wheels to start with, and I have a plan for the bumpers that I will share later on

I am glad to see some other X-1/9 guys here!

Look at those meaty slicks! That looks badass with the gold paint. I'm with Stefan - sounds like HG issues. Get that sorted and go out for a rip. Sounds like a good car with the upgrades.

Sweet. I saw this posted both times, and am close by. I had lust in my heart. Glad to see it go to a new home, and look forward to updates. 

Don't Vega wheels fit these? Spridget, too, I believe. 

I finally took delivery today and got the car unloaded into my shop

These cars are all new to me and I only had a few minutes to poke around today. The body and chassis appear to be very solid; no major rust that I have seen thus far. The wiring does not seem to be as finished as advertised(one headlight dim vs. other, one turn signal inop, only one brake light on one side, etc.), but I will chase out these little gremlins as I go along. We had a bit of a rough introduction that involved me almost breaking the only key in the sticky ignition lock cylinder, and a newly broken frunk release cable. We are learning each other.

I should have snagged a pic of the smashed spark plug. It looks like some chunk of something crashed into it inside the combustion chamber.  Maybe I can get my buddy's bore scope over here and have a look-see in the no.1 cylinder. Since I cannot leak the cylinders down, it looks like a minimum of yanking the head, and more than likely dropping the whole drivetrain out to tear down and inspect.

Plug No.1

The other plugs looked fine, so onto the bore scope. Starting at #4 to get an idea what we should be looking like, no pic. I think the piston was all the way up and the camera would not focus.

#3

#2 appears to show some PTV contact

And, drumroll please.... #1, JUNKED

The camera wouldn't fit past what looks to be an upside down valve, so no good pics of whatever lay beyond. Couple glimpses looked like the end of the rod, and some busted piston parts. I am gonna move the spare engine into the shop and give it an inspection next. Roll it over, leak it down, and try to make sure I am not wasting a bunch of time installing another junk engine.

Started digging into the busted motor tonight

I could get used to this mid-engine deal with a built-in work bench!

One of these things is not like the others!

So, there we have confirmation of the dropped valve. I also confirmed it has A-411 etched in the back of the cam, which I found is a Delta regrind of the 35/75

Thank you for buying that so I didn't!

And thank you more for posting up on here!!!

PS, if you need any parts let me know. I only have random stuff anymore, but I have a couple exxies and some boxes of extra parts.

Watching this one closely.... 

Engine removal day!

Never let your calipers hang on the hoses. Nice that the strut bolts are the same as the caliper mounting 

Going, down?

And, going up!

She's out.

Check out this wicked exhaust

Stay tuned, stay local. Carnage pics at 5p.

Goofy exhaust for sure. Did you have any video of it running? Just curious what that thing sounded like.

What's the plan now? Complete tear down? Or just swap the cam and ancillaries over to the spare motor and install?

Pic for future reference

Onto the carnage!

And in cyl#2

Pretty ugly stuff. Headgasket pushed out and all the debris in #1. PTV contact in #2 with a bent valve. I cannot determine the sequence of the failures but whatever it was, this engine is done.

I was quite tempted to grab all the stuff off the outside and dress the spare engine for installation. It was advertised as bought and never looked at. The outside of the block is rusted, no paint but all the ports were taped up nice for storage. I started peeling back tape and found assembly lube at the top end, clean ports in the head, clean valve stems, and new plugs. No signs of oil or coolant anyplace. Rolled the crank over and it makes compression. peek into the spark plug holes and I can see shiny tops of pistons with huge valve reliefs! This engine was built and never fired. I decided I better eat the cost of gaskets and open it up to make sure I don't have another valve eater...

Big valves!

New pistons, check that pop-up

Bottom end looks just as nice. Balance marks abound.

So, the plan now is to measure everything and ensure this bottom end was assembled properly, try to figure out what sort of static CR it will have, check PTV, and set the timing events. THEN, bolt all the stuff to the outside and see if it will make loud noises

The previous engine went boat anchor in spectacular fashion.  The new mill lookin good from where I sit.  Good luck with it, and here's to loud noises.

Wow.  That new engine looks to have had some good money thrown at it.

You didn't happen to end up with an extra hot cam, did you?  

Burrito said:

You didn't happen to end up with an extra hot cam, did you?  

Not that I am aware of at the moment. There are 2 extra cam boxes here, but both appear to be stock cast offs. I will be checking all the follower buckets to see what sort of inventory I have for shims when I setup the cam on this engine.

On a bit of a sidetrack while waiting for engine stuff. Spent a little bit of time hunting my electrical issues today.
The left front turn signal was inop, missing ground. Wiggle test shows I need to clean and address the ground point in that corner. Right headlight dim, same wiggle test, same result, weak grounding.
Rear lights had intermittent issues; different each time I checked. When the 4" LED trailer lights would work, I could tell they were intended to show brake/turn/park with both lights on each side. Looking at pics of other X's I see the turn signal is separate from the stop/park lamps. This made me think there had to be something going on in the wiring as the turn signal needs to cancel the brake input for this arrangement and that is not how the X was originally wired.


Sure enough, I popped both tail panels out and found this gem! These are used to convert separate signals into a single output for trailers. They are also notoriously JUNK.


I checked the wiring before the converter and found all the signals are present. I bench tested the tails lights and the right side are missing multiple LEDs within each light. Left side OK. I will grab a couple more 4" LEDs and rewire this as a separated signal format to eliminate the converter.

On the engine side of things, I compared parts between each engine relative to setting up the cam, and sorted all the shims I have on hand. The cam box from the broken engine has been shaved. The BVH has not been shaved at the cam box face(at least not as much as the head from the broken engine). The valve stems in the BVH have been ground on and it was wearing a thick cam box gasket as delivered. These indicators lead me to believe the stems may be taller than standard. Setting this cam up in a shaved cam box on an unshaved head with unknown stem lengths could get interesting! I have several bucket shims and a couple of Volvo T5 heads that also use 33mm shims which I have not broken down yet. I have a couple unshaved cam boxes as well that I could swap the 35/75 cam into if needed.


Back to thinking about engine gaskets. I have looked at a couple vendors but am not sure who has the best quality gaskets; head gasket especially. The full kits from Vick's only indicate two options in the menu, and I am uncertain how they would know if my 1500 is 10bolt or 14bolt without me calling them. Do these guys need phone call follow up or are they on the ball with online orders? MWB on the other hand, shows several options for their complete gasket kits which gives me warm fuzzy feelings about getting the right parts the first time. Is it worth the extra money, is the quality better? If any of you guys have used products from these vendors, please lend me your experiences.

I have had nothing but quality experiences with both Mid-West and Vicks.  Even with my bastard child Strada/128/Yugo/X1/9 conglomeration they were able to help me weed through and pick the right parts.

I've got 3 heads worth of shims if you find yourself short a certain size.  You're more than welcome to any that you might need, along with the little removal tool if you haven't got one. 

Awesome score on that motor! Looks like it will be a screamer.