Fiata- what happens when a rusty fiat gets a miata suspension an ford motivation

so, the epoxy resin i selected has a heat resistance of 250 degrees normally and 300 plus if heat cured. i bought a gallon figuring there was good chance id screw up at least one batch and i only have to account for what i use.... so here is the kit i bought...

i also bought some chopped mat and a scale. the directions and the sales person i talked to say the resin is gram sensitive. like, the success of the mix depends on a sensitivity in grams. so i also bought a kitchen scale on amazon. one other important item....

 seriously protect yourself people!

id love to show you the process but you cant really take pictures with epoxy covered gloves. so here is what it looked like after the first application....

 not pretty, but i was focusing on a solid connection to the base plate and effective coverage in the voids between runners. i was also making a base layer in the idle air groove area for sperating that "tube" from the primary manifold space.

cure time is 24 hours..... so after a lot of waiting it was time for the second coat. this started with sanding down the previous work edges with sandpaper to create a good bonding surface. goal for this session was to fully bed the underside of the manifold, set the bottom edge for filling in the space between the runners, and start developing the idle air tube in three dimensions. i suppose i could have made a styrofoam form to dissolve out for the idle air, but i had some backer rod from a door sealing project lying around and it was the EXACT diameter of the tube i needed, so i figured i would use multiple applications to form it and rip the backer rod out in segments. the backer rod also worked well for making a dam to pour the resin between the runners.

sorry no working pictures again.... but here is the intake after round two.

 note the base of the aluminum plate was covered with painters tape during the work. its important.... youcan see that the poured epoxy worked its way into the runner base for the middle two runners. its ok. a dremmel with an etching bit removes the poured product very effectively and the pour method assures an airtight seal. you just dont want to get the epoxy on a surface that needs to be flat and smooth like the mating flange.

here you can see the beginnings of the idle air tube. the valley shown here was formed by backer rod held in place during the resin and mat placement.

 the small hole in the 10 o clock position on the throttle body (far left) connects to the tube and feeds to the left hole on the idle air valve (far right) and meters air into the main body of the manifold through a hole i will drill later.

so what is the payoff? compare the original manifold (minus its baseplate) to the new manifold (with the baseplate) for overall size. i still have several steps to go but i think this might work! 

That's awesome. I need to go back and read the rest of the thread!

awesome work on the intake. would it have been possible to mold in the throttle body flange like you did the base plate?

With little experience with fiberglass and epoxies, how are you attaching the flanges and how much confidence do you have in the strength and reliability of the bond?

I'd be concerned about the weight of the manifold leveraging against the bond at the head flange. But are my thoughts unfounded?

Yes, theoretically I could have bedded the throttle mount flange to the intake but there wasn't a lot of reason to do it. The mount is really simple other than the idle air the and it seemed like it would be easier to manage the process with fewer parts. I also wasn't sure I wouldn't screw up the first few batches and wanted to limit the number of pieces I might have to clean off if I did.

As to the connection to the base I don't know for certain it will hold. The tech rep thought it would as the tensile adhesion on metals was really high in the product data. As far as the weight it is surprisingly light. The base is definitely the heaviest part and it's just a hair over 2 pounds now.

You could always mold in a couple nuts to fasten some braces in to help support the weight.

Id be a little less concerned with bond strength, as I am with differential thermal expansion, heat cycling (brittling the composite), and resistance to petroleum distilates. That said, if you were on the phone with their tech guys, I would think youre probably going to be ok

so apparently im now blocked from photobucket access. im working on an alternate but havent found the time to rework all the links. i am still working on the intake though. i promise it isnt going on hiatus again.... yet.

This is a shame, I was looking forward to reading/seeing more of your progress !

imgur.

photoberkeley-you ate my thread also. Several years down the drain.

Still working on a substitute photo host. But honestly working harder at the project. The throttle body flange is on and the idle air base was cast yesterday. I'm hoping to get more posted photos this coming weekend.

So update..... Apparently when I separated the intake flange from the rest of the intake some warp age occurred in the flange. I discovered it last night when I went to torque down the intake to the intake base. A loud POP!

And I can now feel a gap between the fiberglass resin and the aluminum base plate. :( I'm not sure which state of mourning I am in. But it's the one where "berk" is the most common term. There is a big part of me that is thinking maybe this isn't the right drivetrain anyway. In addition to this issue I was already having trouble figuring out what rear end to use since the miata's 3.9 will give me top speed of 98 mph with the truck's tranny. It will also require 3 gear changes between 20 and 60 which is no good in autocross. And routing the exhaust is going to be a major PITA since the original motor only had 1 bank of cylinders. I am not certain I can't fix these issues, but for the sake of a mental exercise, What 4 cylinder motor. fuel injected but able to operate without any modules. With an actual throttle cable. Boostable with minimal changes, comes with a rwd tranny that has car-ish gearing. And might be found in a vehicle I could purchase for $800 or less (body can be junk, runnable motor and trans) Anyone have any ideas?

5.0 ford, magnum mopar, 60*v6, 4.3 cpi chevy...

Edit: Crap. Missed 4cyl.

Miata is all that comes to mind.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

Chevy v6 came to my mind too. Lots of early 4th gen camaro and firebirds get wrecked and tossed. Especially 6 cylinder ones. But if I'm going to start over with engine I'd at least like to knock one hurdle out and single exhaust/ side mount intake seems like a good one.

I should also clarify. Hp and torque over 200 with reasonable funds.

Ford L4, or variations. Something out of a Ranger or Thunderbird would be perfect and has a TON of support on-line, came as NA and turbo. Many, MANY performance mods are available and documented, Esslinger comes to mind. Essentially the engine used in Formula Ford.

Four and five speed transmissions were factory issue, some made by Ford, others made by Mazda.

All around a superb L4.

GM LFX

Good options. Thanks!

In the mean time I went ahead and fixed the hood hole and worked on some accessory brackets. In the process I accidentally completed the seperation of the intake from the aluminum base. Looking at the two pieces I am actually going to try one fix before I start over. It has come so far it seems silly to just chuck it now.

My plan is to cast a silicone mold of just the mounting flange. Yes it will be slightly warped still. But I figure if I cast an epoxy base into the remaining piece with reinforcing fiber the two pieces will at least be one. Then I will need to deck the new mounting flange to make it flush to the remaining intake base. Not sure how that will be done yet. I may try the sandpaper on glass sheet method. But that is my plan for now.

I need to get the silicone mold material so it will likely be next week before I can re cast.

This talk of casting parts makes me feel inferior in the car project world. Melting your own metal to make custom parts puts you in a next level level.

In reply to NOHOME:

Well, the casting isn't metal. It's epoxy. And having watched your builds I can say with 100% confidence your skills are far superior.

A Zetec SVT is 170 hp and has a really close bellhousing pattern to a 2.3 Lima. Lots of euro longintudinal swaps and lots of usa locost or caterham se7ens with them.