FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Azryael said:

I love that blue, but I'm biased because it looks very close in color to the blue of my truck.

I use the name gemello cattivo, evil twin so I guess that makes her a devil with the blue dress on

mke said:

LOL...I guess I'm the only one who still believes my lies :)

Someday.....

Walking past looking at the lincoln heads lying there I realized it wouldn't be too hard to make it (possibly the worlds first) direct injection...the head couldn't be any simpler so how hard could adding injectors to it be? :)

Speaking from experience, those last-generation Lincoln V12s make surprisingly little power for their displacement.

Anything you do to it will be an improvement.

ShawnG said:

Speaking from experience, those last-generation Lincoln V12s make surprisingly little power for their displacement.

Anything you do to it will be an improvement.

I think that's true for most flatheads.  I'm hoping that a bit more modern cam grind, larger intake valve, more compression and better intake and exhaust manifolds will get it into the 160-180 range and a small blower will do the rest....accent on HOPING as I've never messed with anything like this. 

Its pretty frikin heavy too so I think whatever the final chassis ends up being it need a transaxle in back to move as much weight as possible to the rear....gotta get the franken ferrari done(ish).....

In reply to mke :

Lincoln V12s run hot too. All that exhaust passage between the cylinders...Some German aircraft engines were DI during WW2.

There's also very little on the port/polish side you can do for them, since any material removed from the head also affects the total compression value too in some way. Because of that- and the poor heads from engineers just not knowing or being unable to cast a better part- lots of them actually get boost, and some even have the intakes and exhaust reversed (!).

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

There's a reason they stopped building them :) 

...or maybe   when I get at it and start running into all these issues. 

I think the cooling can be solved or at least controlled without any Herculean efforts.  The Ford V8s work and the 12 is made basically the same way, its just longer so worst case I add external water feeds to the back of block so I know the rear cylinders have plenty of flow.

Then hp....the real plan is to keep the car light so I don't need a lot of hp.  I'm certain that with boost I can get it to 180hp from the lump.  That means the car can't go over 1800lbs which seems very doable with a striped down roadster even with a 500-600lb pig of an engine in it.   

That's kind of the concept and why it probably won't be a simple factory five kit that I know starting out would come in over weight.  I'm thinking something that could have been built in the 50s kind of inspired by aircraft...a "birdcage" space frame with alum body panels if I can figure out how to make them, composite if I can't or get tired of trying.

Its just a question of having the time and budget to get at it......stupid ferrari project...... 

The tires on the wheels and the wheels on the car look so impossibly bad-ass. Looks millimeter perfect.

Nothing at all to do with my car but I was asked to do a 17" version of the 308 wheel, but more OEM and paint color was a concern so today's project was to buy a pint of ferreri 101 Argento Nurburgring silver and do a spray out to have a sample to sent to the vendor to match.  I was a little surprised just how close t was to the color they used ont my wheels when I said "paint them silver"....the oem color is a little darker but man, I'd never pick it up without a sample right next to the wheel.. I made 4, 1 for me, 1 for the customer to approve and 2 for China.

In reply to mke :

valve stems look really close to rim, but the tires are inflated so i guess there's clearance for an air chuck of some sort.   carry on.

In reply to AngryCorvair :

It is very close ....they look neat but I'll probably end up scratching the paint at some point 

A little motivation for the Lincoln. 

My neighbors car.

Love the build. Keep it up! 

Love the hotrod!

I didn't get to the shop at all this weekend :(

In the meantime here's a pretty final view of the 17x9 rear wheel design, a little more to do on the 17x8 front but hopefully these will be ready to send to the vendor to start production by the end of the week. Closer to an OEM look as was requested but they could also be done a bit lighter with a design closer to my 18s.

These will be
17x8 ET 13mm
17x9 ET 16mm

ET can be easily changed...the request was for them to sit out to fill the fender and these number put the outside very near what I have with my 8.5/10 combo and are about as far out as can be done. Can't wait to see them made and on a car!

mke said:

In reply to AngryCorvair :

It is very close ....they look neat but I'll probably end up scratching the paint at some point 

I feel like you just talked yourself into turning a custom inflater end with a low profile and rubber coating.

How hard could it be? 

In reply to Syscrush :

Plasti-dip, right?

The wheels look great! Hoping the engine rebuild goes well for you, mke.

What a lot of cool stuff you have lying around. Lincoln V-12s usually aren't the kind of thing that hides in a garage.

I suppose if the Ferrari engine is too painful that Lincoln V-12 could make the car run ... (just kidding--it would probably be very slow--but I would love to see everyone's faces at that engine in a Ferrari! )

Syscrush said:

I feel like you just talked yourself into turning a custom inflater end with a low profile and rubber coating.

How hard could it be? 

 You're NOT helping ;)

Lug_Nuts_23 said:

I suppose if the Ferrari engine is too painful that Lincoln V-12 could make the car run ... (just kidding--it would probably be very slow--but I would love to see everyone's faces at that engine in a Ferrari! )

LOL...you know for all the really bad ideas that regularly pop into my brain, that was never one of them and now I'm sitting here laughing at how funny a creation like that would be.

What I'm told I'll actually be creating today is shoe shelves in the mud room.  I thought my day would be finish putting away the tools i the 4 bins still sitting on the shop floor, but no, its shoe shelves.

I've not really been pushing on the engine as I don't have the parts I ordered....not sure what the hold up is exactly.  I call and and he tells me he'll pack the order Saturday when its quiet.....I've heard that 3 times now.  Last time he did say he's trying to find rods.  Ferrari letter codes rods in 4g steps to make pretty matched sets (I think Porsche does the same?) and mine are B so that's what hes looking for and hasn't found, he said he needs to pull a couple engines down to see what they have.  I did tell him I have only mostly Bs but 2 or 3 started life as G and I just ground and sanded until all rods matched with end to end within 0.5g and overall within 0.1g....because I could and sometimes I get a little OCD so anything but A will work.....he said ok he'll pack my stuff Saturday....as in last Saturday. 

I need to get back to the head though so after shoe shelves I guess.  i work a schedule that gives me every other Friday off and I have vacation to use so no more work fridays for the rest of the year......hopefully that means a finished engine sooner rather than later......but I am hearing rumblings about a guest room remodel so......

Edit: oh, and the 17" wheels designs are done and wheels ordered so that's mostly off the list now.  Hopefully they are everything F355 engine in his 308 guy wants them to be :)

Now I'm laughing at the idea that it would also certainly be more reliable with the Lincoln engine and that the 250hp I HOPE to get from the engine would put it back to what the 308 had new.

Walked into the shop today and 12 year old's face went pale and took on a sort of terror.......

I looked at him, looked at the tool chest....

You ok?

Nothing broken?

or bruised?

So just the little cut on your finger?

How many draws did you open before it tipped over?

You understand why we only open 1 at time now?

You can help me clean it up later, let's go take care of the cut before mama sees it.

So, the upper chest stuck the landing?

Karacticus said:

So, the upper chest stuck the landing?

No, he had started trying to clean up before I walked in expectedly.  It just missed him and he had to crawl out from under the top lid that came down on over his back.....JUST missed him.  Mama was pretty mad when she found out.

I've seen people a lot older than 12 make that same mistake.

mke said:

Walked into the shop today and 12 year old's face went pale and took on a sort of terror.......

I looked at him, looked at the tool chest....

You ok?

Nothing broken?

or bruised?

So just the little cut on your finger?

How many draws did you open before it tipped over?

You understand why we only open 1 at time now?

You can help me clean it up later, let's go take care of the cut before mama sees it.

 

 

 

Well handled 

mke said:

ShawnG said:

Speaking from experience, those last-generation Lincoln V12s make surprisingly little power for their displacement.

Anything you do to it will be an improvement.

I think that's true for most flatheads.  I'm hoping that a bit more modern cam grind, larger intake valve, more compression and better intake and exhaust manifolds will get it into the 160-180 range and a small blower will do the rest....accent on HOPING as I've never messed with anything like this. 

Its pretty frikin heavy too so I think whatever the final chassis ends up being it need a transaxle in back to move as much weight as possible to the rear....gotta get the franken ferrari done(ish).....

The thing with flattys is, because of the mandatory low compression, they tend to be SMOOTH, and due to all the valvetrain and a lot of the exhaust noise getting kept inside the block, especially with V engines, they tend to be QUIET.  So a flathead V12 would be like the ultimate luxomotor.

IIRC, Lincolns all had updraft carbs, which is another good thing for smoothness.  By nature, only vaporized fuel gets in the manifold.  No puddles.

APEowner said:

I've seen people a lot older than 12 make that same mistake.

My old boss.

Always in way too big of a hurry around the shop. Rounded a corner in a hurry one day with his roll cab in tow. Drawers all slid out and it went over on it's face, full of tools.

I felt no pity at all. 

Glad the kid is ok, good lesson to learn.