Jeep CJ2A Flat Fender Fun

I'm enjoying all the details too. I'm retiring my '48 Dodge at the moment so this is giving me some ideas. Just ordered the crimpers from Mouser that you mentioned in the crimper thread too.

EvanB, ClemSparks, and Racingsnake,

Thanks for the affirmation that I'm not overdoing it. Sometimes build threads seem to be showoff things (not here, but other places) and I don't want to be one of those guys.  I think the GRM community is so good at sharing, encouraging, and giving advice and I just want to contribute in a meaningful way.

Racingsnake, 

I ordered the crimpers mainly for some other projects, but did use them for the bulb socket rebuilds I did for the Jeep and they worked great. You'll like them.

In reply to Carl Heideman :

More details, please!!

You guys said you like details, so here are a lot of details on the alternator mount.

The stock generator is above.  I found two used GM alternators in my various piles of alternators. I picked one and hope it works.  If not, it will just need a rectifier and brushes likely.

I used the stock generator mount to cipher that I needed one about 1-1/4" taller for the alternator.  I also used the mount to transfer punch center points for holes to drill on the new mount.

The new mount started as a piece of 2x4" 1/4" wall tubing that I cut on the horizontal band saw at Eclectic.  I could have done it with 4" cutoff wheel in an electric grinder, but this was cleaner and quieter.

I'm always amazed at the types of cuts that saw will make.

I transfer punched the hole locations from the original mount and drilled holes.  I also trimmed the new mount to the shape I needed.  Then I made a couple of mounting ears out of 1/4" thick 1x1" stock with 5/16" holes in the center.  I bolted them together and ground the bottom flat and radiused the corners so they were exact matches.

Back on the Jeep for a test fit and locating the mounting ears.  By the way, I needed to change the pulley on the alternator to one for a 5/8" old school belt.  I got the pulley from Speedway motors and Nick matched it to the alternator.

More details on finishing the mount.

I've learned (by screwing up) that it's worth building in a little back and forth adjustment on these mounts.  Usually, about two washers is the right amount.  I can then stack two in front, split them as shown, or stack two in the back.  That gives about 1/8" adjustment.

Here's the rough bracket before radiusing the edges, etc.. I didn't take a picture of it once cleaned up, but trust me, the corners are radiused.

Next up was mocking up an adjuster bracket.  I clamped together a few I had laying around to get a rough idea.

I made it up out of 1"x1/8" stock.  I would have preferred 3/16", but I didn't have a piece handy.  The other ones were 1/8" so I'm probably okay.  I bent the radius using my rosebud tip and blacksmith methods.

I drilled a 5/16" hole at the water pump end.  I then bolded a washer to it and used that to guide me as I ground the radius. 

I had to put a 3/8" offset in it.  I did that cold in the vice.  I've found a big adjustable wrench can help keep things straight between the hammer work.

Another mockup to figure out how long to make the tensioning groove.  I moved the alternator in as far as it needed to go to get the belt off, then added about 1/2" for the first mark.  I then moved it to full tight and added about 1" for the other mark.

I cheated and used the mill at Eclectic to cut the 5/16" groove. 

Finished bracket. It should rust nicely within a few weeks and save Nick some time.

Before I had the mill, I would drill two holes at the ends and cut the slot with a die grinder.

Done!

Nice work and write up! 
 

The crimpers arrived and I've put them to use, they work great! Thanks for the recommendation.

Tonight was a fun night as I fired the Jeep up for the first time with the new wiring and all is good. 

Better yet, it was 63 degrees today so I was able to work with the garage door up for the first time in 2022.

The underdash wiring is done and I put in a four fuse box, with two unswitched fuses on the bottom (headlights on one fuse, horn and brake lights on the other) and two switched fuses on the top (coil on one, turn signals, fuel gauge, etc. on the other).

I still need to tidy the alternator wiring and tape up the engine bay wires.  I started the engine with the wiring like this so I could make sure the alternator was charging and that I had the idiot light wired correctly. There is a fusable link under the black shrink wrap at the end of the red charging wire.

I'm using an idiot light instead of the ammeter.  I don't like ammeters in the first place, and 30A ammeters aren't the smartest thing to use with a 60A+ alternator.  It's also nice to have an idiot light so you know when the key is turned on when the engine isn't running. There was a hole in the dash from the plow control, so I put the light there.  I used a Dorman PN 84929 generic light for the idiot light.

As usual, Nick did his thing to make the brand new light and key switch look like they'd been there since 1947. 

I have one minor issue: The alternator doesn't charge or turn out the idiot light unless I manually excite the alternator with a quick 12V+ poke to the idiot light wire. Once excited, it charges to about 13.8V and turns out the light.  I'm guessing that the bulb for the light is too big as I'm getting a 3V drop across the bulb.

For those who don't know how the light works, it has 12V+ on one side of the light and grounds through the alternator when the alternator isn't charging.  It also excites the alternator to get it to start charging by providing approx 12V+.  When the alternator charges, it sends 12V+ back to the light and it therefore shuts off as it's 12V+ on both sides.  Since I'm getting a 3V drop, it's only giving 9V to excite the alternator and it doesn't start charging.  

At least that's what I think is going on.  I've never used a generic light for an idiot light, only factory idiot lights. Stay tuned and I'll report back with which bulb I use. Or maybe one of you has the answer?

Watching and learning about idiot lights with interest!  I suspect many other idiots will enjoy as well.

My experience with idiot lights for alternators is that the alternator should be wired up to charge without the idiot light connected and the idiot light is just tied in as you described. It should not make a difference what bulb you use.

Last week, Wayslow posted that he had finished his CJ2A project early and I commented I was just behind him with this one.  

I made a battery hold down, finished a few minor wiring things, and then it was finally time to put in the new radiator.  It's an OMIX repop that came after about a 2 month wait (everyone must be restoring Jeeps right now).  It was of course, shiny black.  Nick pulled out all the stops for this one.  

It's an all-aluminum radiator, including the bracket above and the fan shroud.  Somebody in the future is going to be pretty confused about how that aluminum rusted. The hoses are new, too, but Nick couldn't stop.

Anyway, with the radiator in and the wiring finished (except the idiot light), it was time for a nice test drive.  After a few ups and downs the street, we took it out for about 4-5 miles and it did just fine.  I'm declaring the major work done and now it's onto the sorting stage.

Your Jeep turned out perfect. I'm not usually a fan of fake patina but I really admire your friends skill in blending the new parts to match the existing. It was completely the right call on your part.

In reply to Wayslow :

Thanks for the kind words. 

Regarding fake patina, I'm with you and not a fan either.  I think you've been patient enough to be with this build thread from the beginning and that my original plan was to restore the Jeep and wipe out the patina. As I got into it, I saw how unmolested it was, except for the rust.  There are so many fasteners that clearly were last tightened at the factory and so many other undisturbed pieces of the Jeep's history that I decided a "preservation restoration" was a better path.  Every scar on this Jeep has a story behind it.  Why wipe that out with some fresh parts and fresh paint?  If the Jeep wasn't so original, like Wayslow's, that would be the better path (and probably faster!).

So I'm calling the faked patina "continuity" as I mentioned in my manifesto on page 3.  If I run across a good, used factory radiator, taillights, a rear view mirror, etc., I'll replace the faked parts with the originals and hopefully have slightly better continuity.  

Anyway, thanks for sticking with this and offering the comments and advice, everyone.  I'll keep reporting on details and changes as they come along, but mainly I'm going to drive it a bit and move on to the next (few) projects I want to "finish."

Somewhere early in this build thread I said I'd post some details that could help other Jeep owners. On other forums and YouTube I've seen a lot of people having trouble making their horns work, usually followed with advice like "change your spark plugs" or "sounds like a clogged fuel filter" or other incorrect answers.   As an aside, all old cars have horn trouble, usually due to corrosion or previous repair attempts.  And many people just ignore correct diagnostics and repairs and just "rewire" or "reengineer" the horn, often with a new button on the dash or steering column.  Anyway, I wanted to fix the original horn circuit and button and keep them working as intended by the creators.

I think horns are very important safety items on old cars these days.  I get so many people hauling out their cell phones and swerving around trying to take a picture when I drive an old or cool car and the horn is sometimes the way to jolt them back to paying attention to driving.  So all my old cars have working horns.

It all starts with the button, which moved nicely on my Jeep but the horn didn't work.

Servicing it requires removing a 1-1/4" nut on the steering wheel.  The button comes off with it.

There is a spring loaded contact that grounds to the steering column when the button is pressed.  In this case, it was corroded and not passing current.  So I cleaned it with some sandpaper and WD-40.  Still no horn. When I looked closely, I could see that the spring loaded contact has contact with a dish-shaped piece of brass that is interference fit into the steel column tube.  I carefully pried that up, cleaned it up with some sandpaper and WD-40, and all was good.

For additional reference, that button/switch is connected to a wire that runs down the steering column to a brass ring on the column.  That, in turn, is contacted by a spring-loaded contact on the screw-in connection on the outer column tub.  I took mine apart and it was very clean, so I just reassembled it.  I'd assume that in many cases, something in that area is very dirty or damaged.

Next up is the horn relay.  The center contact is fused, always on 12V+.  The rear contact grounds the electromagnet in the relay and is grounded/turned on when the horn button is pushed.  The front contact is switched on 12V + when the relay is grounded.  Original Jeep horns are apparently a little hard to find.  Reproductions are available, but over $100, so I put a used Lucas horn on my Jeep until I run across an original horn.

I grabbed this picture from the Internet.  It shows an original-style horn in the original location for reference. Maybe someday I'll have a horn like that in that location. 

It's been pretty cold and rainy for the past few weeks, with occasional nice(ish) days.  Like 45 and cloudy.  So I've only had the Jeep out 6-8 times, mainly driving to Eclectic and back (1.5 miles each way), plus a few errands.  Let's say I've put another 10-15 miles on it.  

IT IS SO MUCH FUN TO GO 25 MPH ON THE STREET WITH THIS THING.  I don't know why but it must be a Jeep thing I don't completely understand.  I get almost the same fun when I drive a Model T, which also is best at about 25 MPH.

Before more boring detail, here's a new glamour shot in front of Eclectic.

Boring Detail #1:  I mentioned before that I had sanded the points, taken the top off of the carb to clean it (but not gone any deeper or adjusted anything) and that it had a bit of a misfire. I've driven it enough now that it's had its Italian Tune-Up and the misfire is gone. I have not touched anything else regarding driveability or tune up.

With just about any car, I'd change the plugs (more on that in Boring Detail #2), the points, the wires, etc., especially if the plugs and wires looked like these. But it runs so well, I'm leaving it. I'm really fussy about driveability and idle quality and this thing doesn't need my fussiness. The designers knew these things had to hold up even with neglect and they succeeded, at least with mine.

Boring Detail #2:  One of my friends is an early Jeep geek and even used to own a prototype civilian CJ at one point.  The first thing he noticed on my Jeep was the channel added below the hood hinge.

Hopefully you can see it there, bolted and gooped up.  It's clearly there because when it rains, the hood seam leaks and fills the #4 spark plug hole and rusts up the plug. Somebody took action to reduce the likelihood of this happening.  Of course, all my plugs are pretty rusty so I don't know if it works, but it's a cool field repair.  This is another reason I'm not messing with the tune.  I think I'll be able to get those plugs out (and have been spraying WD-40 and other penetrants on them frequently), but I'm not going to try yet. 

Boring Detail #3:  The Gauge Light!

The gauges are not back lit.  Instead, there is a light on a little pedestal that shines on the dash. Ford Model As and many other early cars have these, but this one works better.   

It also serves as a courtesy light and lights up enough of the floor to be useful but not enough to be distracting when I drive it.

In case you haven't noticed, I think this Jeep is pretty cool!

And as long as I'm boring you, here is the update on the alternator light.  I'm pretty sure that cool light I bought and Nick added continuity to is an LED.  It wouldn't go out unless I manually excited the alternator by giving it a quick 12V+ poke to the alternator side of wires to the light.  I've never had trouble with an alternator light, so I was a little stumped by this one and did the modern thing: Consult the Internet, which had lots of vague advice, usually about adding a resistor or just not having a light.   Not useful.

Anyway, as a stop-gap and diagnostic measure, I temporarily installed a 194 bulb in a socket to act as an idiot light.

And it's working properly now.  So I either need to find a socket for an incandescent bulb, or figure out how to make the LED work.  I did find something that looked believable on the Internet that said a 50 ohm / 5W shunt resistor in parallel with the LED should make it work.  Then I looked up shunt resistor, and I'm believing it's worth a try.  So I'll get one and report back.  

In reply to Carl Heideman :

I suspect you mean installing the resistor in series with the LED. Installing it in parallel will reduce the total resistance rather than increase it. I did exactly that on my CJ2A and it worked. A 50 ohm, 50 W resistor should provide enough resistance. I used a ceramic insulated one that I had kicking around.

Wayslow said:

In reply to Carl Heideman :

I suspect you mean installing the resistor in series with the LED. Installing it in parallel will reduce the total resistance rather than increase it. I did exactly that on my CJ2A and it worked. A 50 ohm, 50 W resistor should provide enough resistance. I used a ceramic insulated one that I had kicking around.

The article linked suggests in parallel, "Place a 50 ohm / 5W shunt resistor in parallel with the LED. This will supply the startup field current before the engine starts. The resistor and LED will only conduct before you start."  I think the key is that it's a shunt resistor as opposed to a common resistor.  This article defines an "electrical shunt is a device that enables the current to pass through or be diverted past a set point in the circuit through the creation of a low-resistance path." So as I am understanding it, the shunt resistor bypasses the LED long enough to excite the alternator, then when the alternator starts charging, it shuts off the LED just like it would shut off a bulb.

But I may be interpreting it wrong.  It's been 30 years since I took an electronics course (we used wood-fired transistors back then).

I'll try the 50 ohm, 50 W as you suggest and report back.  And I'll probably try the shunt resistor as I'm curious.

Thanks!

The original incandescent lamp may have been designed to detect both a dead alternator and a bad battery.  In the first case, the battery has a higher potential, but in the second it's the alternator.  By substituting an LED in that circuit, it will only light up one way.  My knowledge of Jeeps is basically nil, so I'd check the wiring diagram.  Maybe you really just need a brighter incandescent bulb and to carry a spare.

I love this project.  Growing up in the early 70s, our neighbor across the street had an old Jeep on the porch of a shed behind his house.  It was an endless source of fun for us, and it hadn't run in many years.  The simplicity and ruggedness of it was amazing.

It's funny as I often suggest to people who are chasing a car problem by consulting the internet or just plain parts swapping, let's actually diagnose it.  And with this idiot light issue, I've been consulting the internet and guessing.  So I took my own advice and started diagnosing.

The meter is hard to see in the photo, but if I wire the light up I get a 3V voltage drop when the light is lit.  When I reverse the polarity of the light, I get an open circuit and the light doesn't light.  It's an LED for sure.

With the incandescent bulb, there is no voltage drop and it of course works with the polarity either way.

So the alternator needs 12V+ to excite it, then when it's excited it sends 12V+ back and the light goes out.  But with the LED, the alternator only sees 9V+, never gets excited, and never sends the 12V+ back.

I did try the 50 ohm resistor as Wayslow recommended and it didn't help.  With this diagnosis I can see I have a different problem to solve, so it makes sense it didn't help.

If I'm interpreting the application of the shunt resistor properly and it "bypasses" (diverts around) the LED, maybe I'll get the 12V+ to excite the alternator.

I know this is now a rabbit hole, but for me it's always fun to learn these things.  In the meantime, I'm still looking for a better 12V incandescent socket/lens.

I ran into the same issue when building my trike.  My idiot lights were all LED and no bueno.  I ended up switching out to these, they work well and dont look bad

Pair Red Pilot Dash Indicator Warning Lights 12V - Vintage Classic Hot Rod | eBay

I jumped in the Jeep a couple of days ago for a quick ride, pushed the starter button, and heard the "click" but not the whir of the starter.  Quick troubleshooting pointed to the firewall-mounted solenoid.  Knowing Nick would not want me to hang a brand new one on there, I drilled four rivets from the original solenoid, took it apart, cleaned the contacts, and put it back together. The "click" was now followed by a whir and the Jeep is making me smile again.

I haven't updated in awhile because there hasn't been much to report.  The Jeep gets driven a couple times a week by me or someone else in the family, mainly back and forth to Eclectic, other short errands, or just evening joy rides.  

It smokes some, but not too badly, and leaks about a 6" puddle overnight. I haven't measured it yet, but it's going through a lot of oil--maybe a quart every 25 miles. When I worked at University Motors in the late 80's, one of the other wrenches there had an MGB that burned so much oil, he he put in used oil from customer oil changes if it looked pretty clean. I've decided that I'm going to do the same thing with this Jeep and a flathead Ford I have that also burns a ton of oil. I'm struggling with the environmental impact of this plan.  On the one hand, I'm smoking up the atmosphere and dripping some oil into the ground.  On the other hand, I'm recycling old oil. It's probably not the most responsible way to recycle.

I don't think it's worth rebuilding the engine since it doesn't get a lot of use, but maybe I'll change my mind.

My younger son used to teach sailing at the yacht club about 4 miles from our house and he drove the Jeep there yesterday where it conveniently ran out of gas in a nice setting.  He assumed the gauge wasn't working (it does).  Anyway, I thought this was a nice picture of it by the water.

The daughter of the owner of the shop that I worked at right out of high school had an old Mustang that burned copious amounts of oil.  We had a separate waste oil drum labeled Mustang oil that we put the cleaner oil we drained out of customer cars into.  It was a daily task to top of the Mustang oil from that drum before his daughter left for her afternoon college classes. 

I don't know what it says about me but I can't remember what the daughter looked like but I can clearly picture that Mustang with the blow away gray paint and red interior.

It's like a friend in college during the mid-80s who drove a Vega.  He would say "fill the oil and check the gas".  I believe the Vega managed to consume enough fresh oil that he never bothered changing it.

Carl Heideman said:

Nick has been into patina since before patina was cool and has mastered the art of what I'm calling continuity.  You could say he's faking patina, but to me he's blending preservation artifacts into the fold of the whole history.

(Yes, sometimes I'm a little out there, and no, I haven't been drinking.)

The term I think you may be looking for is conservation.  At least, thats what museum curators use when they build a new whats-it to match the existing whats-it and then manipulate the finish to match the existing.

Dad used to do it professionally for antique (as in up to 300+ year old) furniture.  Its an interesting discipline.