As the former owner of these seats, I'd also call them purple...
As the former owner of these seats, I'd also call them purple...
Patheticlly short update. I’ve decided to wait off on the roll bar until this winter as I’m making such slow progress on other stuff. I’ve sourced some regular seat belts from an 87 via a guy on Saabrally (87 n/a) but he can’t ship then to my until 4/12. I did manage to get the headliner out, but it fell into four pieces as I removed the bits holding it in. It’s now a front section, a rear section and the two parts that are either side of the sun roof. Once I get the remaining dust that used to be foam and material of the parts I’ll put it back in to hold things in the right orientation and use some fiberglass matt and resin to hold things together before re-covering.
Next debate is Firestone Winterforce or used rally tires for Detroit region rallycross? I haven’t seen any used rally tires local though, so it may need to be the Winterforce snow tires, I believe they are the preferred winter tire for rally cross. My goal is May 25th for my first event.
Oh, and when I saw the headliner disintegrating before me as I was pulling it out I was >< close to saying berkeley it, I'll do the no interior thing after all. But then I saw Jay's comments in his rallycross E30 thread about how noisy his car is and that he's thinking of adding some sound deadening back in and that cured me of that. I have the fantasy of being able to drive the car up to the UP the weekend of 4/26 4/27 to see the Magnum Opus rally. 5 1/2 hours with no interior? No thanks.
First off I may be allergic to my car. I spent some time yesterday removing sound deadening tar (why in a mo.) By the time I was done I nose was streaming, eye’s itching, throat sore, lots of sneezing. Crap, is this allergies or a cold starting? Well I know several other people have been sick and it carried on all night until I went to bed. Crap thinks I, I may be getting sick. Well I wake up this morning feeling 100% A OK. Great. Go to let the cats out through the garage, I open the door, lean in, open the garage door to let them out. Head in the garage for maybe 10 seconds. Immediately start sneezing. Hhhmmm. After getting ready for work, head out into the garage to get the trash and re-cycle out before work. Immediately start sneezing again and the itchy eyes, yet by the time I’m at work I’m fine again. I think the crap in the car is hitting me hard on the allergy front, must be some funk mold in there. I’ll grab a face mask before I start again.
So, the little I did. The pics I posted the other week when talking about the roll bar showed the tar was brown in places. Someone over on RallySaab said that can hide serious rust underneath, so I started chiseling away at it, plus pulling up the fiberglass over the cat hump on the center tunnel. Well I think I’m lucky. Everything I’ve got up so far has plenty of surface rust underneath, but is very solid to the screwdriver/hammer/chisel test. I think I need to get some dry ice to help get the rest up (or leave it, I want to use this on the road) then give it a good wire brushing and use some rust convertor before hitting it with rust bullet.
I also pulled the sunroof motor, it seemed to be held together properly so the gear should have been engaging with the cables. The plastic gear looks good, like the new ones I’ve found online with nice sharp edges to the teeth so I don’t think that’s the issue. Hmm, everything looks good back here. So I grab the sun roof with my hand and I can relatively easily slide it back and forth, so it doesn’t seem to be stuck there. Any other ideas?
OK, I ASSume all this can go. I think I just trace it back and unplug the whole lot from where ever it comes from as I'm loosing hte rat trap seatbelts. The sticker is a little confusing as there are a total of it looks like 8 relays 4 on either side of the cross bar, plus the control underneath. Can it all vanish?
OK, times they are a changing. I’ve just found out that through my employer I got a free 3 month membership with free classes to the Tech Shop http://www.techshop.ws/ in SE Michigan, it’s only 10 mins from work. So now I plan on taking some classes and brushing up on my welding skills (My Mig welder is 2,000 miles and 18 years of life away back in the UK). So having said previously I wouldn’t do the roll bar right now, that’s suddenly changed. Initial thoughts are:
I don’t think I can take the car there (will find out the details tomorrow night at an intro tour) But I can use the tool to fab stuff then take it home. I know several people with welders I can borrow to then attach said parts to car.
Happy days.
For the roll bar, this isn’t a real rally or hillclimb car, so I think I’ll stick with the basic roll bar I mentioned up thread from a 1G DSM. I’m pretty sure it’s 1.5”x0.095, but I’ll check. I’ll cut off the old feet and make mounts that will weld to the inner rockers. Cut off the old back stays and make new ones. Where should they go to on a Saab? Possibly a cross bar between them?
Time to get the thinking cap on.
This also has me debating getting rid of the headliner all together! See other thread for that.
OK, so I talked about the headliner in the other thread, maybe I’ll start gluing it back together this weekend, but the honey-do list is loooonnnnngggggggg. So last night I had a few mins and decided to get the rat trap belts out.
Once they were gone I figured that I could try putting the DSM roll bar in place and see if it fitted the B pillar area now the belt mechanism was gone. SO I man handled the bar up from the basement and into the car on my own this time without gouging any of the walls in the house or the car!
Success!
So I threw in some blue painters tape to see how I would attach the roll bar. I’m thinking about the shock tops, but I’ll look at some pics of 900’s with cages and see where they mount. Sorry for the crappy pics, it was dark with poor lighting and my garage is beyond a mess. A cleanup of the garage a new airline and some more power outlets is on the cards in the next couple of weeks to make life easier to actually work.
And then I wondered how the Kirkey seat would fit. I’ve had this new in the basement for over 10 years. Not convinced, once I added some blocks of wood to get the approx. location it was a real pain to get in and out of it. It might be a step too far. Not sure if I should sell it on or not.
So I think the roll bar is definitely a go. The next question is weld in (easy) or bolt in (much harder) so I can take it out and still use the back seats. Also do I just do two rear braces or do I add another diagonal and/or a cross bar where the braces meet the body. Just adding the rear stays on their own would leave a massive storage space for stuff without the back seats in.
Pathetically long time with no progress due to family stuff and a never ending cold/allergy. But it's not all without hope. I have finally done some work on the work space!
Since we got married 13 years ago and I moved in, I’ve been meaning to sort out the power outlets and air situation in the garage. I’ve been surviving off 2 x 15 amp outlets, one single, one double with half busted and the garage door plugged into the ‘OK’ side, so effectively 1 usable outlet. The compressor has been hiding under the work bench with the hose wrapped around it, every time I’ve needed it I pull it out, find an extension, plug it in then unwind the hose and 5 mins later actually use it. I’ve somehow managed to ‘work’ on cars like this for years.
A few years ago we had a new fuse box put in the house and I got them to run a 220v line up to the garage to a secondary but empty fuse panel. So over the last couple of weeks I’ve replaced the old outlets and switches, still on the rest of the house wiring. I’ve now added two new 20 amp circuits with conduit. One leading to 2 double outlets either end of the bench. I’ve moved the compressor, set up a separate 20 amp circuit with a double outlet right next to it. I’ve also set up a panel with the air hose coming out of the compressor, though a new regulator, dryer and filter to a ‘T’ with valves on bout outlets. One outlet can attach to a hose, the other goes up to the ceiling to a 50’ air hose real. I’ve also cleaned off my work bench which I literally haven’t seen the surface of in 4+ years. Bought a load of totes and organized all my cans, oil, grease, paint, solvents, car care, nut’s bolt etc etc. Final touch was a nice big Craftsman vice for my birthday.
So now I actually have a usable garage I can get the car back into and do some work. Running out of excuses, back to work soon.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson: About the sun roof motor: the problems are usually caused by a worn switch, but I did have one with a stripped out gear. A friend of mine gave me a motor assembly with a bad motor, and I took the gears out and fixed mine. I think it was caused by the clamp like devise that holds the cables to the gear drive being loose and causing a jam up.
Your project is looking great, I wish that I had the time and work space to get mine done. I've got a ton of good parts, and what I think is a good plan, but just can't find the time to do more than keeping it running.
HappyAndy wrote: In reply to Adrian_Thompson: About the sun roof motor: the problems are usually caused by a worn switch, but I did have one with a stripped out gear. A friend of mine gave me a motor assembly with a bad motor, and I took the gears out and fixed mine. I think it was caused by the clamp like devise that holds the cables to the gear drive being loose and causing a jam up. Your project is looking great, I wish that I had the time and work space to get mine done. I've got a ton of good parts, and what I think is a good plan, but just can't find the time to do more than keeping it running.
Bad switch hey? hhmmmm. what is the symptom of that, low current so it tries to move or nothing at all? I've take the 'clamp' appart and the gear and cables look OK, I think this weekend I'll try and put it back together and jump it with a direct power source to the motor.
Well to keep SWMBO happy, the Honey-do list is in its 3rd edition, 2nd printing with three expanded volumes. Too much time scraping, filling, caulking, painting, rinse & repeat!
But I get about 30 mins on the car this weekend. With the headliner being out I then I stripped the sunroof motor out of the car. I found the cable and gears appear to be good (good news $$'s to replace the gear, a no longer available Lucas part common with Jag's) So I went to check the motor and found that the gearbox/90 deg drive housing off the end was loose, I tightened that up and it works :) I put it all back together and the roof will now open and close again with two caveats. First it's a bit slow, but I have no idea what is normal. I will remove the panel and clean, lube the mechanism when I go to cover it with headliner material. Second is I hope the reason it was leaking. When the roof panel moves forward it appears to close, but when you look from the inside there are two small steel 'towers' that come up from the bottom of the tray and look like thy area meant to lift the front edge as it finally closes. Instead it touches those and stops. With a helper lightly pushing up on the front edge it rides over them and appears to fully seat. I hope this cures the leaking issue, but I need to know how to fix it?
While in there I checked the two drains were clear. I used a bit of rubber hose to make sure my airline fully seated in the opening so it could just blow back. Both sides appear free and open, so I hope that’s all OK too.
The rubber lip on the front of the panel looks a little old and cracked. Is there a replacement?
FYI, there are 4 drain tubes for the sun roof. 2 in front that drain in the opening behind the front wheels, and 2 in the rear that drain into the air extractor dohickys on the rear quarters.
Six months later. Pathetic!
So I've started up again and I'm re-covering the headliner (badly so far) and I'm trying to do the sun roof panel.
Following the instructions online from FIXMYSAAB.com, I've got the outer and now inner panel out. Borrowing this photo's from fix my Saab
This is the inner panel. I dont' have any material left on this to copy, how much do I cover? The whole thing and put it back together with fasteners going through the material, or is there some shape I need to match or some point I don't cover?
Thanks
Pathetic lack of progress. It's been too borking cold all winter. Some small bits. Headliner is back in sort of 
Floor pan cleaned up of surface rust and painted read for carpet to go back tomorrow
Surface rust on door jamb and bottom of A pillar turns out to have a small hole. Don't know what to do, ideally I need to melt metal.
Next up making the seats fit. I have some other seats from a different year Saab 900 or maybe a 99 I'm not sure, but they have totally different mounts and the mounts are part of the seat frame which are part of the seat so I can't just swap the sliders or something. I may try swapping the seat cover material as they are the same shape. TBD
OK, catch up on lack of progress!
A few weeks ago I tried to get the car up and running. No joy. First off the battery was totally dead so I replaced that with an Odyssey P680MJT. Then I thought I had spark and fuel but not start. After that I confirmed I had spark, but no fuel. That's where we pick up the story. Below is what I posted on SaabRally looking for assistance, but there's far more traffic here, so I'll post it again in the next post.
OK, we seem to have a case of Saab-icus-no-start-icus.
With my glacial progress I still have no start. Previously I had spark and thought I had fuel pressure. Next step was doubly checking the plugs, cleaning, gapping etc. No problem. Still have a nice strong spark. Next step, as I ‘thought’ I could smell gas in the cylinders was to actually crack the return line on the fuel pump and turn on the ignition. Nothing coming out. OK so it’s the fuel pump circuit or relay or something. When I got the car the fuel pump circuit didn’t have the relay fitted, it was jumped like this.
So I removed the spare relay I had in there and tried jumping it again. Nothing. At one point here I may have grounded something momentarily to the ECU that could be important later on.
At this point I resorted to the Bentley manual and had a look at the wiring diagram and relay pins. I photocopyed the wiring diagram and annotated it to trace what each pin on the relay is.
Then I made this little cheat sheet so I could see what had previously been jumped.
Right, what had been jumped was pins 30, 87B and 87 which are Power dist. block / fuel pump circuit (I think, see note on wiring diagram above) pin 30, the Diagnostic port / fuse block pin 87B plus the Fuel injection circuit and Hego/Lambda pin 87. Regardless, I couldn’t detect power to any of these.
Further to trouble shoot per the Bentley manual (Section 234 - 6&7) you just need to jump pins 30 & 87B which as I say did nothing. Next for trouble shooting is to check for power to pin 86. Nothing. Finally connect a voltmeter across pins 85 and 86 and crank. Nothing. At this point it says the ground signal from the LH control unit is bad.
OK, on to that all that. First I did have spark, so I double check it again. Nothing, I no longer have a spark.
Next, maybe when I momentarily shorted something I blew a fuse. I went to the fuse panel in the LF fender and check every single fuse, not just the injection and fuel pump. When I say checked, I just checked continuity, not resistance. All OK.
So moving on to Section 240 – 11. First to test the system it says to unplug mass air and the ECU. No sure why you need to unplug the Mass air as well, but OK. Then is says for LH2.2 (which I believe the 88 is) to check for a ground at pin 11. No, no continuity to ground. Looks like a wiring issue, but where? If the car is an LH2.4 it says to check for ground on pin 17, so I did that anyway, just in case. Nothing. It also says to ground pin 21 then turn on the ignition and check for voltage at pin 9. Predictably nothing.
So. Right now I have a car with no spark or fuel. As I used to have fuel I ASSume that is the root of my issue. The problem is I can’t see anything wrong and I haven’t touched anything else.
Now, the wiring is all 26 years old, various rubber boots etc. are cracked with age, but they were before. I haven’t touched anything else. Are there common problem areas or weak spots that I’m not aware of? Anything I have missed? Any help in what to do or where to look next is greatly appreciated as right now I’m stumped.
Thanks, in hope, your Saab neophyte!
Loss of spark and fuel usually tells me crank/hall sensor on one of these. I've had them fail a couple of times over the years in C900s.
... Of course, given this car's history with the pins in the fuel pump relay sockets, you've already checked what I'd have originally suggested. It was obviously a few years ago, but I seem to remember that Matt was chasing an intermittent no-start that led him to jumping those pins on the relay socket. I've seen them get pushed too far through the other side and not make good contact before. If you pull out your jumper wires, can you see the wiring connectors in the sockets?
Yes I can see the pins from the front side of the socket so I know my volt meter probes are making contact. What gets me is that I did have spark earlier. How do I check the hall sensor?
This is a good walkthrough:
http://townsendimports.com/Web/electrical_system_folder/halleffecttest.htm
There is a lot of good information on that site. Your Bentley manual also has some troubleshooting steps.
Holy batman, the SAAB is punishing you for ignoring her.
OK, dragging this up again. I now have another new battery as my brand new Odyssey P680MJT died. Great service from Amazon sending a new one. People were right, it was the HALL effect that was the issue. The connector in the side of the distributor had disintegrated and the wires were touching and shorting out. I err 'rebuilt' the rubber boot where it came out of the dizzy using black RTV, but it works.
I now have power and a spark. The fuel pump is running and the plugs are wet. Great news, but it's not running. I have spark, I have fuel but no start 
. I can get it to run for a few seconds on ether, but not on its own and I think it only runs on the ether, once that's burned up it stops.
Next step?
I want to actually get it running before I start replacing things. YEs I want to replace the wires, plugs, rotor, cap etc. I know they are all old, but don't forget the car drove into the garage.
Another Q for the Saab Cognoscenti. Is there a difference between the European and North American Coils? Rock Auto list a Bosch coil, but say it's Euro only.
Is there any way to source the rubber boot that comes out of the dizzy for the hall effect sensor wires? You can get rebuilt dizzy's, but it must be available on its own. Worst case Rock Auto list a 'Cardone' brand rebuild distributor on an exchange basis. That appears to have it.
Another thing is there is still some issue with the fuel pump circuit. It won’t run through the relay. When I got the car it had a switch jumped across the relay pins. The PO said it would run through the relay for a short time then stop so he jumped it. I thought that the relay was dodge, but it's the same type as the fuel injection circuit and I can swap relays between them and the injection always runs, but the fuel pump never runs suggesting that it's not the relay. The pins jumped are:
87 - Power to Lambda / Hego and Fuel injectors
87B - Diagnostic port and fuse block
30 - Power dist block and fuel pump
So, the jump is effectively across the power and output as if the relay was triggered so WTF. The relay is good as it works on another circuit, but doesn't work in this circuit, but if I jump as if the relay is triggered it works.
Please help this confuzzeld idiot.
OK, I really need help here. I've ascertained that I have fuel to the rail by cracking the return line and turning on the ignition to be greated by a shower of gas. I also found the MAF was unplugged. Doh. But I don't appear to have power to the fuel injectors. The Bentley manual says to check power to the injectors by using an LED or DVM across the injector plug terminals and you should see flashing or a variation of 0 to +1V. My DVM reads nothing. The next step in the diagnosis says to check voltage accross the blue/red leads to the injector and you should see voltage with the ignition on. WTF, which blue/red lead where and how is that different from the previous step. I realize I'm dumb for not understanding, but please. Help.
Just a WAG on my part, but it sounds like the first test you describe is checking for an injector pulse signal while cranking the engine over (hence the variation in voltage), and the second test is actually checking if the injectors are receiving enough voltage to operate when the Ignition is switched on. I know nothing about SAAB, but that sounds like you've got an ECM issue to me. Again, just a WAG..
EDIT: To further explain why i think it's an ECM issue, the PO having to jump the relay terminals to get the fuel pump to turn on, that signal usually comes from the ECM once the ignition is turned to run (at least it does in Nissan's i've dealt with). A workaround for a bad relay is to jump the terminals, the problem is doing that for an extended period of time will burn out the circuit in the ECM that sends the turn on signal to the pump. Again, a WAG on my part, but you know how opinions are..
06HHR wrote: Just a WAG on my part, but it sounds like the first test you describe is checking for an injector pulse signal while cranking the engine over (hence the variation in voltage), and the second test is actually checking if the injectors are receiving enough voltage to operate when the Ignition is switched on. I know nothing about SAAB, but that sounds like you've got an ECM issue to me. Again, just a WAG..
Thanks, I think I can check that tonight
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