R63 AMG The Unicorn of my Destruction

I think you need to shift from phone to paper at this point.

The next move is in person. I'll chat with the service guys, get a repair estimste, and then back to corporate. Nobody was going to pay for a $49k engine.

I can see a dealer doing something for the AMG if you are in a position to buy a car from them. Maybe some comp'd tech time where they R and R the engine for you and you do the rebuild of the engine yourself? Maybe go for some parts at cost through the dealer with a little help for them from MB USA.

You also need to show up at the dealer with each of the other cool cars at least once. I had a friend that did something like that when he had a problem with one of the Yanmar diesels in his boat. The local distributer knew they had a guy that could have whatever engines he wanted if it came to a repower and they made sure he was taken care of. He ended up getting a free engine block that saved him probably 10K by the time it was all done.

Would driving the V and wearing my PCA instructor shirt be overkill?

I'm doing it in person tomorrow because I'm going to talk to the sales side as well and get everyone on the same page.

I see no way that MBUSA is going to pay a cent for this. Sorry that has been my extended relations experiences with them. I can see them dancing around the issue until you go away though.

I don't WANT Mercedes to pay for it really, what I want it to come up with a solution that makes sense.

Telling me you'll put a new motor in for $57k is the automotive equivalent of your older bother saying you can play on his Nintendo if you pay him $1000. At some point you're just being a dick. So now we have a dialog going and I'm going to chase that.

mazdeuce wrote: Would driving the V and wearing my PCA instructor shirt be overkill? I'm doing it in person tomorrow because I'm going to talk to the sales side as well and get everyone on the same page.

I think that would be a very good idea!

Mrs. Deuce was cleaning out her wallet and gave this to me. She got it this summer when she went out with the girls. She saved it for me. She also suggested that I inquire about the nearest dealership to our summer house in case we want to keep any cars up there. She's good.

Mad_Ratel wrote:

mazdeuce wrote: Did you know that MB never makes a bad part? They may upgrade them through time to make them better, but every part is good. That's according the MB USA on the issue of head bolts with another person who is unaware of the head bolt issue. My first experience with someone at MB being openly rude. I need to cool down.

That right there is the exact german indifference I had to deal with when I worked at Bosch. Contact mother plant about an issue we are having "such and such is doing this!" mother plant:" that is not an issue, we are perfect; by the way, this is how you solve that issue".

that is a legal liability response.

carry on.

Flight Service wrote:

Mad_Ratel wrote:

mazdeuce wrote: Did you know that MB never makes a bad part? They may upgrade them through time to make them better, but every part is good. That's according the MB USA on the issue of head bolts with another person who is unaware of the head bolt issue. My first experience with someone at MB being openly rude. I need to cool down.

That right there is the exact german indifference I had to deal with when I worked at Bosch. Contact mother plant about an issue we are having "such and such is doing this!" mother plant:" that is not an issue, we are perfect; by the way, this is how you solve that issue".

that is a legal liability response. carry on.

Legal Liability between twin plants of the same company?... I mean E36 M3, we'd come to the yearly meeting with a list of issues we'd had with meeting their somehow miraculous uptime only to find out they had fixed issues and not shared (which they are supposed to do as mother plant.)

Ever had dinner with a German? Everything is better in Germany.

MD is getting a liability response yeah.

I found a E55 wagon with history on it. Its not a E63 so thats good. Its still a Merc AMG car though.......

I am curious how this plays out, and really it shouldn't be a hard fix per say. Though, as we talked this weekend, its a specialty vehicle and without a shop receipt for the fix it may cost value down the road.

Paying dealer labor rates for a documented fix to preserve value is part of the math I'm doing. The absolute dollar amount is less important than the value I get from spending it.
The service manager and I had a good talk this morning. The estimate is still being worked up as there isn't a book number for this job on an R63. So I'll get the estimate and talk to MB USA and the tech again and we'll work toward a solution.

And an E55AMG wagon would be super yummy. I was too talking to you about it this weekend. Thanks.

Oh, almost forgot, I spent about 45 minute talking to three different sales people about the V Wagon, one of which has a V Coupe with all the bolt ons and 800ish hp. Also one of the salesman is friendly with the important AMG USA guy who could answer any questions about warranties and autocross which might be important someday.

Well, it certainly is an adventure so far!

mazdeuce wrote: I don't WANT Mercedes to pay for it really, what I want it to come up with a solution that makes sense. Telling me you'll put a new motor in for $57k is the automotive equivalent of your older bother saying you can play on his Nintendo if you pay him $1000. At some point you're just being a dick. So now we have a dialog going and I'm going to chase that.

So going to sound like a dick here I know.

I deal with German suppliers and manufacturers weekly on large and small scale equipment. To them they sold the car with a a warranty, the car made it through the warranty. Go kick a rock. 56K is not going to become 10K, its going to become 53-51K after weeks of dealing with them. Find a motor out of a crashed 63 and then have a independent do it. It is not like there is 40K of labor hidden in the deal.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/281782345240?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

FYI I cannot even get replacement parts out of German suppliers sometimes due to wear. They will say the unit is beyond operational hours and needs to be replaced completely. Parts availability tied to serial number and hours at last service. This is for stuff like belts. Short answer we have all the problem ones on a list and we straight up never buy from them or troll eBay and dove-bid to buy the parts we need, I would never own a Mercedes as parts cost and availability and more importantly service life is just horrendous. I fell like they design and build to the average warranty life.

We've moved from the book solution of just replacing the engine to the real life solution of fixing this one. Nobody was ever going to pay for a new crate motor, we just have to dance around for a while before we can come to a reasonable solution. I feel there are advantages to having a consistent dealer paper trail with this car, that's the real reason we're still talking to each other. They keep saying it's out of warranty and I keep repeating that this was never about warranty, but about their decision not to recall all of them and instead just deal with the individuals who experienced failure. We all know they don't owe me anything other than the respect they show any customer. And more than once now they have said that if I were a long term customer they could take care of me. Fine, I am a long term customer, I'm just at the beginning of the relationship instead of the end.

And you may be right and owning an MB after 100k may be a fool's errand. We'll see.

Its funny - Almost right when I saw your first posts on this SWMBO and I were talking about a new car for her. She likes her Volvo wagon, but I think deserves something new and nicer. Anywho, a new E class was on the table. She was surprised, since I've owned a fleet of BMWs, but I said to her: "Its worth the MB premium, because they take care of their customers. Watch, they are going to give Mazdeuce a real hand even though they don't necessarily have to." Her response was: "Fine, if they do right by him, I can get behind a purchase."

All that to say, MB has at lease one additional new car sale riding on the outcome of this process.

To quote Airplane! "I just want you to know, we're all counting on you."

mazdeuce wrote: They keep saying it's out of warranty and I keep repeating that this was never about warranty, but about their decision not to recall all of them and instead just deal with the individuals who experienced failure.

i feel like you are fighting a up hill battle with that argument. There are many different cars from different manufactures that have well known issues that never end up being recalled.

looks at Ford's 2v 4.6/5.4 problem with spark plugs blowing out of the heads. how many trucks and cars had that problem? it was enough that now pretty much auto parts store sell a repair kit. yet Ford, who i gaurentee was well aware of the problem, never had a recall to fix that.

I'm not saying to not keep up the fight but to keep your expectations at a reasonable level, which it seems like you have

In reply to ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual):

My next argument "some dude on the internet said he'll buy a MB if you're nice to me!"

I do think Mercedes is aware of how heavily perception matters to their buyers.

And yes, I know I'm taking an unusual angle with this, and we'll just have to see where it goes. This whole thing is an experience in dealing with people and their perceptions of other people and their company. There is no doubt in my mind that there exists a person at MB USA who can see things the way I do and use the resources they have to make everyone feel happy about this. I'm not sure I can get to that person, but I'm going to try. And my expectations are such that I'm making new brakes lines for Fergus so I can get him mobile again so I can finally install the lift I'd need to pull the motor out the bottom of the R63. I'm not hanging out waiting for someone to save me, I'm just exploring all of the options before breaking out the wrenches.

mazdeuce wrote: We've moved from the book solution of just replacing the engine to the real life solution of fixing this one. Nobody was ever going to pay for a new crate motor, we just have to dance around for a while before we can come to a reasonable solution. I feel there are advantages to having a consistent dealer paper trail with this car, that's the real reason we're still talking to each other. They keep saying it's out of warranty and I keep repeating that this was never about warranty, but about their decision not to recall all of them and instead just deal with the individuals who experienced failure. We all know they don't owe me anything other than the respect they show any customer. And more than once now they have said that if I were a long term customer they could take care of me. Fine, I am a long term customer, I'm just at the beginning of the relationship instead of the end. And you may be right and owning an MB after 100k may be a fool's errand. We'll see.

All of my MBs have over 100k. Old 85 300sd has about 350k, the 87 560sec with 6.0 AMG engine conversion from new (euro delivery straight to AMG before the merger) has 120k or so, and my 03 v12tt s600 has 135k. I do almost all my own repairs etc and, while they do have their 'issues', they really are great cars to spend time in. I would hesitate to buy a newer high hp Benz. If I were in your shoes I'd pull the engine and fix it myself or buy a used replacement and keep the original for later. These cars are't rocket science, but some parts are expensive and they can be complicated to work on at times...I've dealt with much worse though.

In reply to Cotton:

I'm not afraid to pull the motor do it myself, but once I go down that path I close a lot of other options off. I'm pretty much following a flowchart of options at this point.

Make sure you drive the Porsche to the dealership next just to hammer home how many cars you have.

I drove past an MB minivan with a couple of guys trying to changing a tire on it earlier today. I nearly drove off the road when I saw the badge, just as I went past. R63. On the right, AMG. Note that this was in a somewhat sketchy area (many would definitely declare it way more than "semi") and the van had all the haulmarks of a once high-end vehicle that had slid far enough down the depreciation curve to be purchased by someone who had no clue what he was getting himself into. I own a rental HOUSE nearby, and I paid well less then what the MB dealer quoted mazdeuce for the crate motor.

Anyway, I just couldn't believe seeing an R63 there. So, that accounts for 2 of the 44...

In reply to NorseDave:

Did you get a plate#? Sounds like mazduce could pick this one up as an engine/parts donor for way less than his quote.

If owning one R63 is a bad idea, then owning two must be half as bad.
Someone better check my math.

That's super cool that you saw one. Mine is the only one I've ever seen.

Javelin wrote: Make sure you drive the Porsche to the dealership next just to hammer home how many cars you have.

I really don't think that matters, not even a little. These guys deal with one-percenters on a daily basis. In most cases, you probably wouldn't recognize them.