R63 AMG The Unicorn of my Destruction

I still don't understand why you haven't gotten a second opinion from an indy shop. No MB specialists around you?

You've mentioned getting parts to fix the existing engine. unless I missed something, it didn't sound like the dealer is willing to do that. The labor involved is much greater than a more straight-forward engine R&R. The latter is easier to define and schedule with fewer potential unknowns.

For an experience reference, back in '02 I bought a used '98 Audi A4 Avant 2.8Q. On the drive home, something in the timing belt system failed from a botched TB job (somebody probably used the "mark and pray" method) and it died. Called the seller (bought used at an Acura dealer) and he said, "Damn. Ok - take it to your local Audi dealer - a buddy of mine works there." So I did. Now, it's a long convoluted story about what I was told and what actually got done, but in the end it was 10 weeks before I got the car back. Basically because the dealer was using my car as "filler work" when they weren't too busy with more profitable jobs.

Dealers don't want big projects that will tie up a service bay and a tech for who knows how long. Doing an engine R&R is bad enough. Trying to repair an original engine? Wouldn't hold my breath on that one. This is another reason for suggesting an indy shop. They are often more willing to take on a job like this.

Initially the dealer wasn't willing to mess with the motor. At some point they talked to MB USA and changed their mind. I'm not sure what that conversation was.
I do have some Indy shop options in town, one of whom does Weistec stuff. I've been collecting names, but I want to carry the dealer option forward to wherever it ends up. The longer this goes on the greater the chance they tell me to just go away. I wonder if that's what they've been attempting all along.

And because I couldn't sleep last night and was pricing parts (a whole new transmission from MB is only $3500, bargain) just in case, and researching the GLA45 (which I like more and more) and Indy shops I got very introspective at about 1:00 AM. I've come to the conclusion that what bothers me most about this whole thing is what I heard from the dealership and MB USA within the first few minutes of talking to them individually. Both said "if you were special we would treat you better". That has been bugging me. A lot.
I know the world isn't fair. I know there are better customers than others. I get that. But telling me I'm not good enough......
I LOVE cars. I buy new cars. I buy used cars. I work on them myself. I pay others to work on them. I teach autocross to new people specifically because I'm good at igniting passion in people for their car. Maybe that's not what MB wants. Maybe they just want someone they see every 24 months on the dot to turn in a car and pick a new one out of inventory and because I'm not that guy I really am less valuable.
I know I deeply miss driving the R63. I spend 2-4 hours a day driving around my kids. My life is better in that car. The R63 is the equivalent of the corner office with a mountain view and a great office chair. Some cars are that good, that special.

Does ARP make a stud kit for this motor?

Have the bolts been redesigned?

Or do the bolts actually pull out of the block? In which case that is what helicoils are made for..... Every hot rodded air cooled Vee Wee has helicoils or stepped studs.

ARP does make a stud kit but MB redesigned the head bolts in mid 2010 to address the issue and the new bolts seem failure proof for stock power. The heads break off the stock bolts, they don't pull out. If you're looking at shoving boost in there then the ARP studs are the way to go. Again, lots of options. Having extra cars to avoid being in a hurry is nice.

Here's where we're at midday Monday. MB USA said to have fun with the service manager, he's nice. We may agree to disagree.
I worked up the parts prices. Their parts quote was $6296.23 plus tax. This is prices that are above MB list price. I can buy those exact same parts with the same MB warranty for $3373.74 online. List price on all those parts is $4714.30.
Basically I've talked them down $1581.93 (or about 25%) but that's still $1340.56 more than I should have to pay. They are unwilling to allow me to source my own MB parts.
And we continue........

mazdeuce wrote: Maybe that's not what MB wants. Maybe they just want someone they see every 24 months on the dot to turn in a car and pick a new one out of inventory and because I'm not that guy I really am less valuable.

That is exactly what they want in a customer. They actively go after and court this customer even if new to the brand above and beyond what they will do for an existing customer.

mazdeuce wrote: My life is better in that car.

OK man, you recognize by now that y perspective on this is a bit different than yours, but did you really mean this?

MB's name of the game is the customer that buys new every 24 mo and does not care about depreciation. Porsche caters to the enthusiast it's their brand image. The guy that buys his car and drives it for decades of enjoyment, then buys the wife a panamera for her to enjoy etc...

This is why depreciation is so retared with MB. Buy a sl63 for 120k. drive it 10k miles and sell for 70k when you get your new one. They want the guys that literally burn money for the fun of it, the ones that buy a new amg as a line item on their taxes to reduce them...

To them you are the worst kind of buyer, one that expects the car to work past it's warranty. One that will not be back every year or two for a new car.

I remember working at carmax in 2008 while in college and being amazed at the essentially brand new merc's we had on the lot. I had to ask around, is this really a E500 we have for 23k? It's a 2006 wtf? "oh go sit in it, it's falling apart already". That E series when you locked the doors the door lock stalk in the panels would break off. (happened to me when cleaning one up to sell it.) It was a special order car with a blue interior and blue exterior and had a msrp in the 60's if I recall right. 8k miles on it.

Second hand merc buyers have the WORST rep of all. Think dubs and no idea that a 120k car has 120k problems. Which is why the dealer probably fobbed you off at first. (No way he can afford it and we really do not have time for this.)

Any enthusiast would never use the dealer for a car he bought second hand. This is true for Porsche and I feel many other brands. Once the car is a gen old it goes to a specialist to be worked on. Guys will travel states to get to their preferred specialist (i.e. Black Forrest Racing in NC for Porsche, or EBS racing in nevada.)

Friend of the family used to do events with the amg club in his SL55 AMG. He turns all his own wrenches and I dont think it's ever been to the dealer. (he bought it with 10k miles on it for ~63k one year old.)

In reply to tuna55:

To the extent that any object can make a task better. Good tools are better to work with than bad tools. A good chair is nicer to sit in than a bad chair. Chopping vegetables with a good knife is a pleasant task. Spending 2-4 hours a day in the car, a really good car makes that part of my life more enjoyable. It doesn't have to be THIS car that does that, but for now it is.
Do I need the R63 to be happy? Not at all. My life is wonderful and I gleefully acknowledge that. I want for nothing.

To add, It is not unheard of for the Porsche's that wrack up the big bucks at auction to have things like "always maintained by so and so of California" instead of a dealers name...

It's hard to get a feel for modern Mercedes and what the future of collectibility might be. It's looking more and more like this one is going to have an extensive service history from The Grosh.

Yup, No idea when they'll enact the "motor law" :P

Sorry I love me some Rush.

In reply to mazdeuce:

I fully support your action on dealer parts pricing, having worked in service, recall 100%+ mark up wasn't uncommon on many things.

Prepare yourself, I once tried to get help here sorting out labor time for a DSG service, alone, separate from the typical 40K package. I was met with indignation from some of my favorite GRMers, for trying to get a fair price for the service, with my own parts, at the devil's own VW.

I hate to pee on your parade but I just don't see it being anything but a depreciating asset. Maybe I misunderstand your point for mentioning the rarity. It appears only to be rare because of the (known to fail) AMG engine.

You've rationalized and understood all sides of the situation. Time to fix it so you can enjoy it again.

OHSCrifle wrote: I hate to pee on your parade but I just don't see it being anything but a depreciating asset. You've rationalized and understood all sides of the situation. Time to fix it so you can enjoy it again.

Yes, there are precious few MB products that do anything but become worthless. Of course nobody quite saw Porsche values doing what they've done so I try to keep an open mind. It's worth fixing for the enjoyment it brings me.

Factory service CD incoming and then I'll get my ducks in a row.

One of only ~200 to ever be sold here, right? And only available via special order, right? I'd certainly say it's worth repairing. The enjoyment you get from it is an added bonus.

One of 180 built for worldwide consumption, one of 44 sold here.

I think the MaxJax is the right lift for the Grosh. It will get the R high enough to clear the motor out the bottom.

After you buy the parts, youre currently at $1300 plus the $5k labor for them to fix it. As such, $6300 is the premium you'll pay for someone else to fix it.

Pros:

you stay clean

It will have a warranty (I assume)

It shouldn't hurt value; or minimally

Cons:

The cost

It will, or at least could, take longer to fix than if you did it yourself.

You don't gain the experience or have the stories to tell us

So is your weekend worth $6300?? You could deduct the cost of the lift if this is the only reason you'd get it. But then again you'd use it a lot as long as you live there....

And is there any depreciation associated with you doing the work? I'd imagine that a potential buyer in the future wouldn't have a hard time being ok with your explanation and documentation of what you did to repair it.

I'd tell your dealer to pound sand, schedule the lift install, order the parts and get your metric tools lined up. And I'd do it if the savings were 1/2 of what they are for you. But I'm a cheap mamma jamma.

If the repair is done correctly by mazdeuce, and it will be because that's how mazdeuce does things, then to me it's a don't ask don't tell situation when it's time to sell.

And if someone asks, this thread should be enough to convince that person that mazdeuce isn't just some backyard hack trying to save a buck.

Maybe mazdeuce asks the dealer tech if he does side work? Then it is done by a MB tech and could be advertised as such.

The real deciding factor is that there is a very reasonable chance that I have a very expensive coffee table in the engine bay right now. I'd rather spend $2k and buy a lift to figure that out than pay someone to do it for me.
I don't think this is going to be a weekend ordeal, not for me anyway, but I'll get it done.

It's not surprising the dealer won't let you provide the parts, that's pretty typical for any repair shop (the corollary is bringing your own eggs and bacon to a restaurant and asking them to make your breakfast.) As for negotiating down the price of the parts versus what you would pay for them elsewhere, that's a judgement call. Any business will have some amount of profit they need to build into their pricing; for instance, this particular dealer may have higher operating costs than the other places that have cheaper prices. It would be a good faith gesture for them to match the lower pricing, but in the whole scope of things they may decide it's not worth doing for this one particular situation.

Yup, I get that. I do. But at this point it's getting hard for me to be able to go through the dealer and not end up grumpy about things no matter what the end result is.
I'm an emotional car person. Nothing makes me keep a car longer than being happy about it, and nothing makes me want to get rid of it like being angry. Taking this on myself is a different kind of adventure. I found the cam timing tools, they're not expensive. I may need a few other specialized tools but they all look accessable. I've pulled and installed engines from the bottom of other cars. This should be within my skill set and I think completing this task will make me very happy with the van.

I have a similar issue. I have no problem paying a tech the labor cost (they're likely better and definitely faster than me), but the parts markup really bothers me. I can pay cost + 10-15% profit for the dealer, but struggle to pay much more than that.

The dealer in Arizona must be marking up some or they wouldn't be selling. Price through them is $3373.74. Price through my dealer is $4714.30, which is MB list price, or almost exactly 40% above what the other dealer charges. Their initial cost of $6296.23 was 87% higher than the other dealer. For the same parts. And I had to ask in order to get list price.
And like you I'm ok paying more on labor for someone who has been specially trained by AMG, but they can't put enough free coffee in the waiting room for me to be happy about that markup.

A Mazdeuce Grosh needs a Rotary Lift. Find something like an SPOA9 and feel secure standing under anything in your stable.

I picked up a couple of them a number of years ago and refurbished them with parts from http://www.sviinternational.com/ I sold one of them and ended up with about $250 in the one I kept.