Good handling classics under 10k?

So I'm used to maintenance. If you recall I have driven a VW beetle for 3 years.

Another vote for Volvo. I love the 122s myself- cheaper and more practical than the 1800s, and the same running gear. 10K will buy plenty of really nice ones, with money left over for a B20 swap or even something more adventurous, like a turbo B230.

Parts have never been an issue for me, we've tracked a 122 and rebuilt everything on the car cheaply. The cars are almost as easy to work on as a Beetle, too. I joke that my 122 fixes itself while I watch.

In reply to alfadriver:

"Not to hijack this thread, but what does a decent TR8 sell for these days? And what does one look for when checking one out? I test drove one back in the early '80's and ended up in a TR7 instead, but still seriously want a TR8."

You can still get really decent TR8's from $8000-12,000., sometimes even a bit less. A good place to start is pick up the book "The Essential Buyer's Guide: Triumph TR7 and TR8" by Roger Williams. There are also a couple of wedge specific forums on the net. Also call Woody at the Wedge Shop. He usually knows where there are a few for sale.

In reply to TR8owner:

FWIW, you were replying to racerdave.

Needless to say, there are a lot of good choices for the OP.

So I'll point out the rather obvious- which car do you like the most? This isn't a logical decision, it's an emotional one.

@trulyspooky I realize you've driven a Miata but have you autocrossed one or driven one on a track. I'm lucky enough to have driven a whole range of cars from fast single sweaters to 700hp Vipers to bone stock Fiat X19 and the Miata is the funniest car you will ever drive.

Another thing you may or may not have considered, is upgrading the Beetle, a set of sway bars and decent dampers will go a long way to making it handle better. Add disc brakes and maybe a 1700cc motor. 90-100hp would go a long way to making the car better. Once upon a time people actually autocrossed and road raced Beetles successfully at the regional level. Now my contrary nature is such that people telling me I'm nuts for running a Beetle would drive me to make it faster. Back in the day I worked at a Toyota dealer another mechanic had a 1776cc powered Beetle that was fast enough to leave shiny new Supras in the dust.

As for the car chosen, I'd agree it's going to be an emotional choice, on our Datsun 1200 we got it because it was cheap and sturdy. We've kept it for 30 years because it grew on us and its continues to be great fun.

Whichever car you choose, the one non emotional choice should be support for the model. Example the Datsun 1200, it's light, handles well and you can upgrade the motor but there are a lot of little things that are very hard to find versus a Z car where virtually every part on the car is available.

In reply to Tom1200:

No, i haven't actually taken a Miata around a track. The thing is I just don't like them. I can't explain it, they handle tightly and rev to the moon, I can get why people like them. It's just I look at one and go "meh" but I see a gremlin drive by and I'm bouncing up and down, for some reason i just like quirky cars, and the miata is just too utilitarian? for me.

And come to think of it i have two engines, I could build a 100 hp engine very easily. Bore it out stroke it and cam + heads....get bigger carb....Yeah not hard

This article seems relevant: https://classicmotorsports.com/articles/windup-sports-cars-small-sizes-can-yield-big-fun/

In reply to TrulySpooky:

I get your anti-Miata-ness. Truth is, in the looks department, they do nothing for me- and I suspect you as well. I know some people like the styling, but to me every generation has been just "meh". I love driving them, and have owned a few, but I'd rather trade ultimate handling for something that just makes me smile to be in and chuckle when I look at it parked there.

The only thing that does that, for me, are older cars. Beetles. 122s. TR6s. etc.

alfadriver wrote: So I'll point out the rather obvious- which car do you like the most? This isn't a logical decision, it's an emotional one.

This bears repeating.

Here in GRM-land, we call the Miata "The Answer" because it's a very logical choice. It just does so many things really well.

But that said, car purchases are rarely logical. Usually, quite the opposite. Lack of logic is why so many people buy SUV's when few really need one.

I could see myself beign very happy with a pair of TR7/8's. A TR7 coupe daily driver and a TR8 Spider for weekend fun. I wonder how well a modern DOHC 4 would fit...

Ian F wrote:

alfadriver wrote: So I'll point out the rather obvious- which car do you like the most? This isn't a logical decision, it's an emotional one.

This bears repeating. Here in GRM-land, we call the Miata "The Answer" because it's a very logical choice. It just does so many things really well. But that said, car purchases are rarely logical. Usually, quite the opposite. Lack of logic is why so many people buy SUV's when few really need one. I could see myself beign very happy with a pair of TR7/8's. A TR7 coupe daily driver and a TR8 Spider for weekend fun. I wonder how well a modern DOHC 4 would fit...

IMHO, you would be wasting a perfectly good DOHC 4!

In reply to Ian F:

Its a shame they never put the TR7 Sprint into full production. It a had a four valve per cylinder 2.0 using the same block as the SOHC two valve engine in the TR7. It would have been a far better car and much better performer. They made a hand full for the UK market but never put it into mass production. Totally stupid decision. They did get it right putting the V8 into the TR8 but production was delayed for two years and by then it was too little too late. Only 2800 were produced before BL folded.

I've seen a couple of TR7 Sprint engine conversions and they're quite cool, although I'd still prefer the V8.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

"I get your anti-Miata-ness."

Not a little bad car but my problem is my brother has a 1965 Lotus Elan. If I showed up in a Miata he'd laugh his ass off at me.

TrulySpooky wrote: In reply to Tom1200: No, i haven't actually taken a Miata around a track. The thing is I just don't like them. I can't explain it, they handle tightly and rev to the moon, I can get why people like them. It's just I look at one and go "meh" but I see a gremlin drive by and I'm bouncing up and down, for some reason i just like quirky cars, and the miata is just too utilitarian? for me.

I get that. It's the same reason I liked my 94 Escort wagon over my dad's SVT Focus. Now, if I were picking a car just for track use I'd prioritize functionality and durability. But, for fun street use and occasional motorsports antics the car that makes me smile wins every time.

In reply to TR8owner:

Interesting. I'd never heard of the Sprint - or more accurately, didn't know about the DOHC engine. Wikipedia has a decent article about it. They seem to surmise one reason it didn't live long was performance numbers were too close to the TR8.

Rimmer Bros sells a conversion kit, but at $2391 plus shipping, it's not cheap and appears to be mainly a collection of parts the buyer has to rebuild and assemble themselves.

The TR7 is definitely a car that has grown on me over the years. I never really thought about them until I rode in a 7 Spider a few years ago and was shocked at how modern it felt compared to my GT6.

In reply to Ian F:

The wedge feels like almost a modern car especially compared to all the other Triumphs I've owned. I could cruise cross country in the TR8 quite easily. I'm a bit unusual because I appreciated them even when they first came out. The early ones built in the Speke plant near Liverpool are dogs but the later ones after production being in Coventry area are much better.

The sprint engine was the same one used in the Triumph Dolomite sedan in the UK, basically a direct competitor to the BMW 2000 series. it was quite a potent sedan and very successful on the race track. Its not a DOHC but a SOHC that used an innovative mechanism that allowed four valves per cylinder. They made around 100 or so sprint TR7's for the home market but for some strange reason decided not to mass produce. An absolutely stupid old school tie British management decision since the 4 valve could have easily met American emissions and was a lot more potent than the 2 valve. The highly successful TR7 rally cars, including the ones driven by John Buffum in North America all used the 4 valve heads. The TR7 could have been a fantastic car if they had done the 4 valve with better brakes. But that's what could have been....

Well you sort of got it right, but not really. The TR7 sprint had 16 valves but didn't have dual over head cams. It had a single 8 lump over head cam. It ran 16 valves off of that 8 lump cam, with the use of cam followers. Pretty slick setup. Anyway, don't bother with it. A basic TR8 is still way more fun that the sprint engine. I had a sprint engined TR7 with high compression pistons, twin 45DCOE Webers, a cam, headers, yada yada yada. Sold it. Wouldn't buy another one. The problem with TR8s is you are always looking for the next thing to make them faster. Most are modified to some extent now. Hard to find bone stock ones. Modifying them gets addictive, and they respond so well to those mods. There are some real fast TR8s out there. I have 6 of them now, but have had twice that many over the years. There is a real nice modified TR7 coupe out there as well for the days I decide to drive around like a sane person. Its the only Triumph I own with a radio. At this point, I can't make the Rover engine fast enough for my tastes, so the current project involves a TR8 coupe, 120 feet of roll cage tubing, lots of fiberglass and a LS3/TR6060 package.

In reply to tr8todd:

Todd, you are my kind of guy. I've just sold one of my TR8's, but that's to raise money to convert the TR7 vintage race car into a TR8.

I've been a closet TR7 and TR8 fan over the years. So this thread is getting very interesting.

Does the tr8 come in a hardtop (or targa) variant? I only see convertible options. Not the best for what will be daily.

Just curious. I think I'm going to try to find a nice Volvo. either an amazon (122) or 1800 model. we'll see what i end up finding.

@TR8 as soon as your brother attempted to keep up with the Miata you bought he'd be weeping inconsolably. I've driven both and as good as an Élan is it doesn't have a prayer. It may be 400-500lbs lighter but it's 7 inches narrower, does not have the rigidity of a Miata and you can't make up for that. As an example at the 2015 Lime Rock Fall Festival Bob Leitzinger turned lap times in a Élan right on the Spec Miata lap record. An F Production Miata is 2 seconds faster than that. A Super Miata (another 25hp) spec car would also be 2-3seconds faster. Add in the the fact the Miata is built like a tank and will put up with monumental amounts of abuse. You can't beat 25 year newer technology.

@TrulySpooky I like quirky as well; I've owned 2 Volvo 140s, a 144 rally car and a 142E daily driver. The 122s and 1800s are much better looking but with the 140s yet can get A/C (I'm in Vegas) as well as other more modern bits. 1800s are uber cool but make sure you inspect one very very closely. Any bodywork issues on them is not cheap to correct. Other Volvos on my list would be 242GT or 240 Turbo (although I generally don't go for turbo cars) The Bertone cars are also cool but they were automatics, although some were converted.

Tom

TR8owner wrote: In reply to volvoclearinghouse: "I get your anti-Miata-ness." Not a little bad car but my problem is my brother has a 1965 Lotus Elan. If I showed up in a Miata he'd laugh his ass off at me.

My Dad bought a 64 Elan, loved that car, it was unreliable and finicky (vacuum operated pop-up lights are great until you're banging down a dark road and lose vacuum as the engine load changes) or you try to launch it with gusto and the stupid rubber drive joints bounce back and forth under acceleration. He still has the factory service manual for his. Sold it when the kids started arriving.

That said, he recently bought a Miata after retiring and decades driving interesting, but ultimately compromised cars (Bugeye Sprite, MGB-GT, euro-Capri, Shelby Charger, Daytona Shelby, Audi A4 Avant, etc.) and stated two things: It took him way, way too long. Also, the Miata is the best driving Elan he's ever known.

Nowhere near as raw, but it is a modern evolution of the Elan. Lotus owners know this and more than a few own Miata as their daily or backup roadster when they can't or don't want to drive their Lotus. Your brother would get it and if he doesn't, what would it matter what other people think about your or your car of choice? Do you enjoy it? Is it obnoxious or unsafe? Then ignore them and just enjoy it however you decide to.

Given the customization available for the Miata thanks to the aftermarket, if a stock one doesn't float your boat, then tweak it so it does,

I love some of the old classics, but I also know that unless I win the lottery, they'll never be more than toys that sit around in different states of disrepair while I try to find parts or worse, waiting for me to finish "improving" them because I'll have bitten off more than I can chew.

For a college student, I'd look at either trying to improve the handling of your beetle (don't laugh, it can be made better, start with stuffing as much tire under it as you can) or buy something boring and reliable that can haul what you need and keep the bug for when you're home from school.

TrulySpooky wrote: Does the tr8 come in a hardtop (or targa) variant? I only see convertible options. Not the best for what will be daily. Just curious. I think I'm going to try to find a nice Volvo. either an amazon (122) or 1800 model. we'll see what i end up finding.

I have about a dozen Amazons in varying states of disrepair, so if you decided to go that route, I can help you out. I've been driving and wrenching on them for 15 years or so. Great little cars.

Adding A/C to a 122 is a bolt-on affair, thanks to the aftermarket kits out there, if you don't mind the old-type under-dash units. I've had one and it worked quite well in the sticky Washington, D.C. weather. Most of the 122/1800/142 that had A/C back in the day are due for an upgrade, anyway. The new systems are much improved.

If you decide to go the 1800 route, they're mechanically the same but much rarer and command commensurate prices. Plus the bodywork can be killer. Lots of places for rust to start and no place for it to end. I've (sadly) scrapped more 1800s than I've saved, simply because the tinwork got the better of them. Well, and one looked like it had been rear-ended by an 18 wheeler.

In reply to TrulySpooky:

Most TR8's do seem to be convertibles. I believe there was a hardtop version, but they weren't as common. Which is somewhat ironic as the TR7 was originally introduced only as a hardtop when B-L (along with many other manufacturers) was convinced convertibles would be outlawed in the US (it ended up never happening, but it was rumored).

You definitely can't go wrong with a 122 or 1800. A 122 is definitely more practical. Just don't expect crazy amounts of horsepower out of the stock engines and engine swaps are not straight-forward due to the tight confines of the engine bay (the suspension gets in the way). Stock HP is between 118 and 130, depending on the year/spec. 150 to 160 or so isn't too difficult with common modifications (mainly to the head exhaust ports), although it does require knowing what you're doing. Typical bolt-on's don't really add much. A lot of aftermarket tube headers are actually worse than the cast iron manifold on later models (identified by twin down-pipes off the manifold - which is essentially a 4-2-1 header).

Ian F wrote: In reply to TrulySpooky: Stock HP is between 118 and 130, depending on the year/spec. 150 to 160 or so isn't too difficult with common modifications (mainly to the head exhaust ports), although it does require knowing what you're doing. Typical bolt-on's don't really add much. A lot of aftermarket tube headers are actually worse than the cast iron manifold on later models (identified by twin down-pipes off the manifold - which is essentially a 4-2-1 header).

The stock B18 in pre-68 Amazons was rated at 85 HP, though it's got a lot under the curve and the engine will willingly rev to 6000 or more. The B18B (in the 68's and the 123GT) made 118HP, and the fuel injected B20 got up to 130 in the high compression version. The early carb'd B20 made around 100 or so.

For track/autocross use, I'd shy away from stock Alfas, Fiats, TRs and MGBs (lots of body roll, weak 2d gear Alfa synchros).

MG Midget ? Cheap to buy, easy and cheap to maintain or upgrade (big sway bars and welded diff), max smiles per mile, autocross terrors.

BMW 3 series ? E46 cars under $5G said the esteemed DavidSWallens on 6/16 GRM cover story that suddenly made it difficult to find said car for such price.