Would an NHRA required drag chute be considered budget exempt if your car breaks the 150 mph trap speed mark?
Would an NHRA required drag chute be considered budget exempt if your car breaks the 150 mph trap speed mark?
Argo1 wrote: Would an NHRA required drag chute be considered budget exempt if your car breaks the 150 mph trap speed mark?
Care to share your plans? You have my full attention!
Argo1 wrote: Would an NHRA required drag chute be considered budget exempt if your car breaks the 150 mph trap speed mark?
Edit...I misread what you wrote. No, a chute would not be budget exempt. Exemptions are spelled out in the rules. Chutes are not listed as a specific exemption.
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
We considered entering and competing in the Challenge with conventional weapons but that could take years, cost hundreds of dollars, and dozens of marriages. Instead we opted for the "nuclear option". Purchases have been made and build is underway but don't look for us at this year's challenge as pesky things like "life" make it a slow build. See you at the $2012 event. Not really going to say much more at this point.
Luckily anything that can do 150mph will place last in the auto-x. Haha.
In reply to PhilStubbs:
I wouldn't bet the farm on it! 
I bet they got a clapped out indy car. Add SBC and go.
In a 2500lb (with driver) well engineered car you are talking ~675 hp to run 150mph. A big turbo or massive NOS (or both) small block will get you the power, but a chassis that car turn as well will be tougher. I have a few ideas, but I ain't sharin! 
Interesting ideas..... but no. Though I would love to buy a clapped out Indy car for $2K! Sign me up! Ours is a make and model of car that has never been run in the Challenge before and a build concept that hasn't been used.
I still don't think that I have the final answer on a drag chute. I think that it should be budget exempt because it is required safety equipment and does not contribute to the speed of the vehicle. Also there is no way to "adjust" if a non chute equiped car breaks the 150 mph mark such as there is if a non cage car breaks 10.0. In that case the sub 10 run is just scored as a 10.0. They can't move us back to 149mph.
I won't bother guessing, I will just wait and see. I don't want to get it right and spoil the surprise. 
Whatever it is, if you manage 150mph you will impress us no matter what the build. That is if no one does it this year.
Yes, I want to keep the surprise as well. My build partner is telling me to shut up and get off the forum. Though it is fun to read all the guesses and ideas.
Whether or not we will actually break the 150 mark has to do with many things including track condition, weather, etc. We know from the simulations that we are within striking distance. I won't share the other data.
For those of us with more time than money (or brains) the planning is the key. Our project(s) have been planned, designed, "built", and "tested" with CAD and computer simulations. This saves a lot of mistakes and wrong assumptions which we can't afford during the real build. Hopefully we will roll out of the garage pretty close to correct. One of the reasons the build is going to take longer is that it is a two car team. Both are based on the same make and model, though powered differently. The hope is to have them both ready for 2012, though I can't promise even though there are some economies and efficiencies in a multiple build.
They are not designed as one event cars. After the Challenge, the plan is for both cars to compete in The Ultimate Track Car Challenge (with some refresh and upgrades, of course). Following that, Car #1 is headed for speed trials to complete the original goal of this project: It's the sign that's taped up on the wall - "Project 200 for 2K".
Enough talking. Time to build!
Mmmm, bench racing- yummy!
And how many 9 second cars have already been built for the Challenge??
wheels777 wrote:Per Schroeder wrote: 4. The following safety gear can be installed on the Challenge vehicle or used by the driver without counting toward the Challenge Budget: A) Seat belts or safety harnesses and their mounting hardware. B) Window nets and their mounting hardware, arm restraints. C) Fire extinguishers or fire-extinguishing systems. D) SFI-rated scattershields and driveshaft loops. E) Helmets, driver’s suits, shoes and other personal safety gear. F) Rubber or steel brake lines, master cylinders, rotors, drums, brake cylinders, calipers and brake pad linings may be replaced with new stock pieces. Original brake parts cannot be sold and then rebought to take advantage of this allowance. G) Roll bars and roll cages may be added. Roll cages must be bolted (not welded) into the automobile and contained within the passenger/driver compartment. Roll bars may be welded in. A roll cage has more than five attachment points (but no more than eight) to the body or frame. Roll bars and roll cages must be padded within 6 inches of the occupants’ heads with SFI-spec high-density padding. Helmets must be worn in cars with roll bars or roll cages. Any additional bars and attachment points added to the roll bar or roll cage, or extending the bar or cage outside of the passenger compartment to the suspension pickup points, will negate this allowance and make the entire cage count toward the budget. The safety items may only be used as intended for safety purposes and have no performance advantage.Any chance C-clip eliminators may be considered a safety item that does not add any performance advantage and be added to this list?
C-clip eliminators??? Count? Don't count??
SVreX wrote: Mmmm, bench racing- yummy!
I've bought the parts for at least 3. Does that count?
wheels777 wrote:wheels777 wrote:C-clip eliminators??? Count? Don't count??Per Schroeder wrote: 4. The following safety gear can be installed on the Challenge vehicle or used by the driver without counting toward the Challenge Budget: A) Seat belts or safety harnesses and their mounting hardware. B) Window nets and their mounting hardware, arm restraints. C) Fire extinguishers or fire-extinguishing systems. D) SFI-rated scattershields and driveshaft loops. E) Helmets, driver’s suits, shoes and other personal safety gear. F) Rubber or steel brake lines, master cylinders, rotors, drums, brake cylinders, calipers and brake pad linings may be replaced with new stock pieces. Original brake parts cannot be sold and then rebought to take advantage of this allowance. G) Roll bars and roll cages may be added. Roll cages must be bolted (not welded) into the automobile and contained within the passenger/driver compartment. Roll bars may be welded in. A roll cage has more than five attachment points (but no more than eight) to the body or frame. Roll bars and roll cages must be padded within 6 inches of the occupants’ heads with SFI-spec high-density padding. Helmets must be worn in cars with roll bars or roll cages. Any additional bars and attachment points added to the roll bar or roll cage, or extending the bar or cage outside of the passenger compartment to the suspension pickup points, will negate this allowance and make the entire cage count toward the budget. The safety items may only be used as intended for safety purposes and have no performance advantage.Any chance C-clip eliminators may be considered a safety item that does not add any performance advantage and be added to this list?
I have no authority, but they can't possibly be considered a performance advantage.
tuna55 wrote:wheels777 wrote:I have no authority, but they can't possibly be considered a performance advantage.wheels777 wrote:C-clip eliminators??? Count? Don't count??Per Schroeder wrote: 4. The following safety gear can be installed on the Challenge vehicle or used by the driver without counting toward the Challenge Budget: A) Seat belts or safety harnesses and their mounting hardware. B) Window nets and their mounting hardware, arm restraints. C) Fire extinguishers or fire-extinguishing systems. D) SFI-rated scattershields and driveshaft loops. E) Helmets, driver’s suits, shoes and other personal safety gear. F) Rubber or steel brake lines, master cylinders, rotors, drums, brake cylinders, calipers and brake pad linings may be replaced with new stock pieces. Original brake parts cannot be sold and then rebought to take advantage of this allowance. G) Roll bars and roll cages may be added. Roll cages must be bolted (not welded) into the automobile and contained within the passenger/driver compartment. Roll bars may be welded in. A roll cage has more than five attachment points (but no more than eight) to the body or frame. Roll bars and roll cages must be padded within 6 inches of the occupants’ heads with SFI-spec high-density padding. Helmets must be worn in cars with roll bars or roll cages. Any additional bars and attachment points added to the roll bar or roll cage, or extending the bar or cage outside of the passenger compartment to the suspension pickup points, will negate this allowance and make the entire cage count toward the budget. The safety items may only be used as intended for safety purposes and have no performance advantage.Any chance C-clip eliminators may be considered a safety item that does not add any performance advantage and be added to this list?
Keeping the axle shafts attached to the car would have some performance advantage.
Rob_Mopar wrote:tuna55 wrote:Keeping the axle shafts attached to the car would have some performance advantage.wheels777 wrote:I have no authority, but they can't possibly be considered a performance advantage.wheels777 wrote:C-clip eliminators??? Count? Don't count??Per Schroeder wrote: 4. The following safety gear can be installed on the Challenge vehicle or used by the driver without counting toward the Challenge Budget: A) Seat belts or safety harnesses and their mounting hardware. B) Window nets and their mounting hardware, arm restraints. C) Fire extinguishers or fire-extinguishing systems. D) SFI-rated scattershields and driveshaft loops. E) Helmets, driver’s suits, shoes and other personal safety gear. F) Rubber or steel brake lines, master cylinders, rotors, drums, brake cylinders, calipers and brake pad linings may be replaced with new stock pieces. Original brake parts cannot be sold and then rebought to take advantage of this allowance. G) Roll bars and roll cages may be added. Roll cages must be bolted (not welded) into the automobile and contained within the passenger/driver compartment. Roll bars may be welded in. A roll cage has more than five attachment points (but no more than eight) to the body or frame. Roll bars and roll cages must be padded within 6 inches of the occupants’ heads with SFI-spec high-density padding. Helmets must be worn in cars with roll bars or roll cages. Any additional bars and attachment points added to the roll bar or roll cage, or extending the bar or cage outside of the passenger compartment to the suspension pickup points, will negate this allowance and make the entire cage count toward the budget. The safety items may only be used as intended for safety purposes and have no performance advantage.Any chance C-clip eliminators may be considered a safety item that does not add any performance advantage and be added to this list?
Some humor in that..but also a bit of truth. Car can't run if it's broken.
Pat wrote: Some humor in that..but also a bit of truth. Car can't run if it's broken.
On a serious note a wold of hurt can happen if one of those axles lets loose going down the track. I like the Nelson family. Don't want my joke causing some hazard for them.
What are the thoughts on extended wheel studs? Since they are a required item to run slicks, would they come out of the budget or are they a safety item?
In reply to PhilStubbs:
If you use them, I would say they count to the budget. Point being, I can run some 45 degree acorn steelies with slicks and I can run the stock studs just fine. When you get into a "spaced" mag wheel, eg- Weld Draglite/Prostar, is when you fall out of favor on the stock stud length for the lug and require the extended stud. Just remember that you have to have the length of the stud engaged to the nut the same length as the diameter of the stud, per NHRA rules. Doesn't matter if it an open acorn or a long mag nut, you will need some of the stud to protrude past the end to pass tech.
JMO.
Brian
My opinion is that studs and C-clips eliminators would not count. C clip eliminators don't make the axle any stronger, just changes the failure mode from instant death to losing power. Studs do increase strength, but knowing the condition of our typical old rusty studs, it's pretty safety related on its own.
I was under the impression that longer studs would be needed no matter the wheel used if slicks were used.
PhilStubbs wrote: I was under the impression that longer studs would be needed no matter the wheel used if slicks were used.
No? Why would that be?
PhilStubbs wrote: I was under the impression that longer studs would be needed no matter the wheel used if slicks were used.
Stock studs are legal with steelies and slicks. The longer studs are required when you have aluminum wheels and the stud must extend into the hex. Aluminum wheels are an advantage. I have included the cost of the long studs in my budgets whenever I had to buy them for my challenge cars.
C-clip eliminators are safety only. If anything they would actually be a performance disadvantage with the weight (minor) and higher rolling resistance (also minor).
Per Schroeder wrote: 4. The following safety gear can be installed on the Challenge vehicle or used by the driver without counting toward the Challenge Budget: A) Seat belts or safety harnesses and their mounting hardware. B) Window nets and their mounting hardware, arm restraints. C) Fire extinguishers or fire-extinguishing systems. D) SFI-rated scattershields and driveshaft loops. E) Helmets, driver’s suits, shoes and other personal safety gear. F) Rubber or steel brake lines, master cylinders, rotors, drums, brake cylinders, calipers and brake pad linings may be replaced with new stock pieces. Original brake parts cannot be sold and then rebought to take advantage of this allowance. G) Roll bars and roll cages may be added. Roll cages must be bolted (not welded) into the automobile and contained within the passenger/driver compartment. Roll bars may be welded in. A roll cage has more than five attachment points (but no more than eight) to the body or frame. Roll bars and roll cages must be padded within 6 inches of the occupants’ heads with SFI-spec high-density padding. Helmets must be worn in cars with roll bars or roll cages. Any additional bars and attachment points added to the roll bar or roll cage, or extending the bar or cage outside of the passenger compartment to the suspension pickup points, will negate this allowance and make the entire cage count toward the budget. The safety items may only be used as intended for safety purposes and have no performance advantage.
I think that this list is just fine the way it is, and would not like to see too much creep in the "safety" exceptions. If this were all up to me, the list would be getting shorter rather then longer...
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