$2017 Challenge Rules and Date Announced

If it helps I'll use whatever y'all say. Well to be honest the Budget Spreadsheet Vice President of our team will so really no skin off my back.

Tom Suddard wrote: Oh, one other question I got: Returning cars and previous budgets. In a perfect world, every budget every year would be complete. It's tough at the event for competitors to look at your budget sheet and see references to "$2013 Budget Build Book" when they're wondering where your parts came from. It also slows us down immensely while we're writing the story. My hope is that this budget sheet becomes a living document, and an updated version (in full) is presented with your car at every Challenge. Made a few changes from one year to the next? Just update the budget sheet and bring it back in full. However, I know I'll be chased out of town by a pitchfork-wielding mob if I say "Recreate your 15-year-old napkin-sketched budget from scratch immediately." So I'll say "Please move towards including your full budget each year." If anybody needs to know what they did a few years ago, we have all of your build books filed and would be happy to let you know what's in them.

I got another one for ya. What to do about trading your Challenge car for a new Challenge car? Do I include the previous cars budget, including recoup etc, or do I put the budget final value of the old car as my purchase price for the new one?

In reply to maschinenbau:

In your example, I would say you have to include the entire trail of purchases and expenses that got you here- that would include the previous car's budget, and recoup.

Here's why... Let's say you built car #1 for $1500, and traded it for car #2. Assuming your work to car #1 added value, you will trade it for car #2, which will be worth more than $1500 (because the guy trading you recognizes the value of the labor, etc, you put into car #1).

So, if the labor you put into your crapcan Neon made it worth trading for a 2016 Corvette, then you have won (and it is legal). However, if you start with a new value, you would have to put the FMV of car #2 at the time of the trade, which may exceed the budget (especially if it is a 2016 Corvette).

However, this is not really relevant to the budget form. The form does not have to be changed to accommodate this.

Sounds fair to me. Looks like I'm in the running for Longest Budget Award 2017, if I can actually keep the Rice Rod costs down.

Wow, that's a lot more complex than I thought it would be. My usual sheet is 4 columns "Part cost", "Item description", "Price sold", "Item description". Then some math at the bottom.
If it's a fair market value item I state FMV and attach a comparable sale (ebay usually). Considering I've seen people doing their budget on a napkin sitting outside registration, I think this might be overly complex.

(Oh and no offense to anyone, but I can think of at least one 8 year challenge veteran that would need the help of his smartest daughter to fill this out. Tod, I may not be talking about you. :-)

spin_out wrote: Considering I've seen people doing their budget on a napkin sitting outside registration, I think this might be overly complex.

I suppose that could work, if we all used matching napkins.

I think some of you are failing to recognize what the staff has been through in creating this, and what they go through every year in trying to make things fair to 40-70 miscreants who won't fill out a simple form.

Consider what it would be like to have to sit and figure out if 50 different napkins were all satisfactorily in budget. It's a freakin nightmare.

So, they are asking us to step it up. Make the event a little better.

They spent 2 weeks or more trying to come up with a form that most people could use easily, wasn't overly complicated, and captured the relevant information. Perfect? No. Adequate? Absolutely. I think they did a very good job. It should serve the needs very well.

I work with spreadsheets every day, so I may not be the best judge. But I am having a hard time understanding how someone who can't understand that form would be capable of building a Challenge car. It's pretty basic stuff. Plus, if it is standardized, it would be super easy for competitors to help each other fill it out on this forum ("Can somebody help me understand what I am supposed to put in Cell C9?").

It could have been much more complicated. It also could have been more basic and pretty much useless.

This tool will enable open and equal evaluation by all the naysayers, and will add credibility to the event. It could even (perhaps at some point in the future) be something that was shared openly online, or complied into a more detailed comparison of all competitors.

How about a little support?

Thanks, GRM!

In reply to SVreX:

I'm trying to figure out what makes it in-elegant. This requires DATA, so it's as elegant as enough information.

One thing that would be really cool- on the recoup page- if the SOURCE name was always the same, you could set the sheet up to track the value left automatically. (if source = "same name", then value = last remaining value)

that would make the spreadsheet automatically tell you when you ran out of value.

Theoretically, you could also use the first instance of a source to start with the value on the purchase page.

Cut bait on this one, and set up a simple one.

spin_out wrote: Cut bait on this one, and set up a simple one.

Go for it, and present it.

Or explain better why it's bad, so it can be fixed. Just saying it sucks helps nobody, as it gives no indication how to do it differently and be "better", whatever that means.

I've not competed in years, and don't intend to. But think the spreadsheet would be pretty easy to fill out. The only change I would make are the suggested automation stuff above. Which isn't easy, and perhaps I should do it and send Tom a version of it.

One other suggestion, Tom. Can you make an "official receipt"? The reason- much of what is going to be purchased will be done as cash or exchange, so there won't be a business receipt.

So for each part bought/sold, the person can have a self made one that you can see and use. And for those, it will be common across everyone. BTW, Excel has some receipt templates already. You can use one for a team to buy and another for a team to sell....

In reply to alfadriver:

It wasn't me that said it was inelegant. In fact, knowing how clunky it could be, I think it is surprisingly elegant.

I agree with you about trying to automatically calculate remaining value in a parts deal- in fact, I already sent Tom my first attempt at it. However, my version became clunky and not very user friendly, so I don't think it should be used. Feel free to take a stab at it!

Standard receipts would not be very useful to me. Blank receipt books are cheap in the stationary stores, and if I have to, I can always create a hand written one on looseleaf paper. I wouldn't want to have to find a computer and a printer every time I wanted a blank receipt.

Quick question. What about parts from ex challenge car that the new buyer didn't want. The sale price is higher than total budget. I am talking stuff actually on the car as ran.

In reply to SVreX:

Oh, I know that- I was more in agreement that it should be used, or at least actual suggestions and specific issues are brought up instead of unclear and blanket criticism. One poster did call it "not elegant"- whatever that means.

As for the receipts- that's a good point. I guess it's a good reminder that every spreadsheet has a receipt spreadsheet in it's "new sheet" database.

stan_d wrote: Quick question. What about parts from ex challenge car that the new buyer didn't want. The sale price is higher than total budget. I am talking stuff actually on the car as ran.

Am I understanding you to say that the purchase price was higher than $2017, but included parts that could be sold off?

If so, unfortunately it is not allowed in the current rules set. Initial purchase cannot exceed $2017.

I am selling and buyer doesn't want drag racing stuff. Everything taken off will end up on this year's car.

In reply to stan_d:

Then whatever you paid for those parts originally.

stan_d wrote: I am selling and buyer doesn't want drag racing stuff. Everything taken off will end up on this year's car.

Either get the buyer to agree on a price reduction based on the parts not included and use that, or use FMV since they are now parts you already own.

Edit - excellent point stampie

Tom Totally different problem. At work, I have Office 2013, so I have the most up to date Excel, and have no problem with xlsx files.

But here at home, this bad laptop only has Excel Starter, so when I open the file, it gives me corrupt errors. Can you save it as a previous version? This is one thing that may be an issue with other competitors....

I was looking into functions that will do partially what I'm suggesting, and have found a few things. One thing may end up pricing down something using accounting functions... But I can't play with it here at home...

Well so far, as both a rookie and someone who sucks with excel, I like the spreadsheet.

I will also acknowledge I'm not going to nearly the extremes as most other people, mostly just maintenance stuff and tires, so I can't comment on it as far as heavy use. But messing around with it on my phone, it's much better than anything I would have come up with.

Also having the example spreadsheet of the trooper is a nice touch, and good way to experiment with the way things work.

Thank you for simplifying something I was putting way too much thought into.

Thanks for all the feedback, everybody. I'm going to look it all over again and review.

And though I do love me some complicated Excel formulas and appreciate the advice, I purposely kept those simple at the expense of some advanced functionality. Why? It should make the sheet work better across different versions/programs.

I'll let you know when the final version is available for download.

I will use whatever you tell me to, its your event afterall. If a standardiced format makes your lives easier I am all for it

I will need to bring a laptop to the challenge from now on, no biggie.

Parking lot builds and notebook paper just won't hack it any more I guess

In reply to pimpm3:

Huh. That's a good point.

If the budges will need to be tracked in Excel, then it may be necessary for GRM to make a printer available at check-in, or accept electronic versions.

I see no reason why competitors should not be allowed to do their budget sheets in the car en route, or at the event. But if GRM needs a hard copy, it could be difficult.

Pretty sure the host hotel "business center" has printed a bunch of challenge budgets.

bluej wrote: Pretty sure the host hotel "business center" has printed a bunch of challenge budgets.

I printed all of my receipts out on that printer for $2016, forgot my build sheet at work.