$2017 Challenge Rules and Date Announced

In reply to Ovid_and_Flem:

There is not really a new recoup rule.

The recoup rule was written in 2003. It was re-written in 2013 (IIRC) to try to simplify, but the new version created a very big loophole.

People who had been involved since before 2013 interpreted it based on the old rule. Some newer participants interpreted it differently (which opened up a great deal more available money for most builds).

It's the same rule, just a different interpretation. The "new rule" is just an effort to get back to what it has always been.

In reply to SVreX:

Guilty as I interpreted the rule that you could recoup up to the max on selling off parts on car purchase regardless of purchase price. Which begged the question that if you recouped $1000 on a $200 car was it really a $200 car in the first place? I see that it would sKew the intent of the challenge. Didn't realize the old rule was made ambiguous and created unintended loophole. ..glad it has been closed.

In my case it really didn't apply as I only recouped about $250 on a $500 car. Not a big market for clapped-out C4 parts. LOL

Can I add that even if tires were included in the budget, tires are still hands down the biggest factor in performance.

$1217 of tires on an $800 miata is hands down faster than $17 of tires on a $2000 miata.

In reply to Robbie:

Agreed but I'd like to see safe tires at the event no matter the benefit of new tires or nicely used tires. In my first two years tires weren't free to the budget both years I ended up with corded tires at the end of the event.

Robbie wrote: Can I add that even if tires were included in the budget, tires are still hands down the biggest factor in performance. $1217 of tires on an $800 miata is hands down faster than $17 of tires on a $2000 miata.

I agree that good tires are the single most important performance factor.

I do not, however, agree that there is a direct correlation to dollars. The best tires I've ever had were the ones on my $2015 Challenger, which I legitimately got for free from a source that was available to all Challengers. I paid shipping only.

Tires are part of the decisions that need to be made.

In reply to all who commented about my post:

I see your points. You guys certainly are passionate about this, and from reading the many topics about past Challenges, rules need to be massaged once in a while. I can see how important tires are, and the effect they have on a budget. This is sponsored by a tire company, after all! Play on!

In reply to motorcycle builds:

Read the NHRA rules on requiring reverse. There's a lot of little things I think people are going to miss.

RealMiniParker wrote: In reply to all who commented about my post: I see your points. This is sponsored by a tire company, after all!

As it has always been

Stampie wrote: In reply to motorcycle builds: Read the NHRA rules on requiring reverse. There's a lot of little things I think people are going to miss.

Unless that can specifically be linked to an NHRA safety rule, it may not apply to this event.

There have been rulings in the past that overrode rather large NHRA rules. The biggest one was the wheelbase rule. NHRA says no motor swaps in cars with a 90" wheelbase or smaller. That would exclude a LOT of Challenge cars, including the Miata.

Further note...

The Challenge rules say they include the NHRA safety rules. Since the NHRA rules do not specifically have a section called "Safety", this is up for interpretation.

I think it could be argued that virtually all of the NHRA rules are safety rules, but some are probably more about classes and competitive fairness.

A harness or a roll bar is obvious. A motor swap is not. Reverse gear is not.

I read a reverse gear rule last night specific to motorcycle and snowmobile engines. Reverse only required if you burn out across the start line.

Don't worry, we'll be applying common sense to the NHRA rulebook. After all, we don't really care about classes or competitiveness.

At the Challenge, Motor swaps are allowed in cars with less than a 90" wheelbase. You don't have to have a reverse gear unless you burn out across the start line.

Any other weird rules like that, post on the board or email me or Rick directly, and we'll answer them.

I'm looking into adding a section to this effect in the rules, and will let you know if that's possible.

C clips and welded diffs?

Let me talk to some experts (the fastest drag pass I've ever run was in the 14s) and get back to you.

Just keep one of these in the passenger seat if you run C clips.

(kidding!)

Also big thanks to rick for dealing with my emails.

And being able to swear himself to secrecy, because if anyone knows my car before the trailer door opens i'm coming after him

patgizz wrote: Also big thanks to rick for dealing with my emails. And being able to swear himself to secrecy, because if anyone knows my car before the trailer door opens i'm coming after him

So I should say nothing about the Z car you found inside a chicken coop?

Or that you have started liking polka dots?

Or you've grown your hair out?

Or that you cancelled the appointment with your dermatologist and have decided your complexion and the thing on your nose are just fine?

Lucky for me tires wern't a factor,My rear 19" a6's were free,I bought 4 18" a6's for $25 bucks, older but lots of rubber, my problem came because I wanted to keep My CLAPPED OUT C-4 Street Legal Now that isn't a lot in Ga.but I couldn't just throw some stuff Away, It was only a grand when I bought it and recouped that selling Engine and trans, so now I have a chopped up Vette that NEEDS a Buttload of body work, If that gets done can I still get in with a more Untouched Big Block,Thinking about towing down, putting the tow truck Engine in it for the Show,And swapping back to come home, so that could keep me under 2000 bucks, Is that going to work for Ya'll. Comments Please, (Or do I just build a truck)(not the tow truck)If I build a truck I require some Help from the Locals and they are Few and Far Between. Lesile is still Pissed off at me so he ain't gonna help.Fleetwood Mack Song called, Oh Well, Keeps playing in my Head.

In reply to GTXVette:

What body parts you need GTX? I may have some

In reply to Ovid_and_Flem: Oh not a lot of Parts per sa, Maybe an 88 rearend My wheels won't fit my 84, windshield frame as the cut I made could be done better(to lower windscreen)and make it wider as it gets lower,can't seem to find a hood that isn't damaged,I shortend mine 11" and the glass work will cover most damaged areas,the front edges where it meets the nose is damaged in the same place driver side on two hoods I have. So Not so much parts, but help,I'm Only 66 you'd think I could Breeze through this stuff. Now another song is ringing in,Beatles "I'm so Tired".

In reply to GTXVette:

Hang on...

Are you saying you are thinking of swapping the engine in the parking lot for the event, then swapping it back to drive home?

Sounds optimistic, but I salute you!

In reply to GTXVette:

Well I have an undamaged hood with headlights, nose I may not use. Might need one of your damaged hoods believe it or not.

Youre in georgia?

SVreX wrote:

Stampie wrote: In reply to motorcycle builds: Read the NHRA rules on requiring reverse. There's a lot of little things I think people are going to miss.

Unless that can specifically be linked to an NHRA safety rule, it may not apply to this event. There have been rulings in the past that overrode rather large NHRA rules. The biggest one was the wheelbase rule. NHRA says no motor swaps in cars with a 90" wheelbase or smaller. That would exclude a LOT of Challenge cars, including the Miata.

You need to see if that is in fact in the rule book. I believe the 90" wheelbase requirement was removed 4 years ago.

In reply to wheels777:

Doesn't matter. Tom said it's OK at the Challenge!

(I know it was the NHRA rule when the exception was made)

Stampie wrote: C clips and welded diffs?

My opinion:

1. You run 10.99 or quicker, you need to comply with NHRA rules.

2. You run 11.00 and slower, disc brake will satisfy General Rule 2.2 and 2.11 for axle retention.

3. You run 11.00 and slower, nobody is going to check if you welded your rear diff or over shimmed your posi, don't go 10.99 or quicker.