20K Volt? Why wouldn't I?

So Chevy has issued a 7,000 rebate on all 2013 volts. A local dealer has one on the lot that they want to unload at invoice, less cash back, less some extra discounts bringing the total price to 29,9XX.

Correct my logic here,

The Fed tax credit is still rolling strong on Volts at $7500 bringing the total paid to 22400.

The State of Illinois has so much money they want to give purchasers of "electric" cars like the volt 10% of the MSRP up to $4,000 which this one is MSRP of >40,000. This would make the total paid for the Volt 18,400 plus TTL which since my trade in is Valued at around 22K should bring my total to right around 20K.

What is maintenance/reliability like on the Volts? This seems like a way more interesting option at the ~20K price point than a Sonic/Focus/Elantra. My Commute will be 60miles round trip and apparently we are getting charging stations put in in the next few months. I know some of you on here have volts. Should I join you?

at 20k I'd definitely rock one for my commute

If that real, jump all over it. My guess is that the dealership is figuring on them getting the tax credit, though, because used cars are going for more than that.

For me, anyway, maintenance has been basically zero and reliability has been 100%. This seems to be typical, too. Customer satisfaction ratings on Volts are near the top of the charts and most of the dealer service guys I've talked to see them rarely if ever. Plus, at the end of the day, it's a new car with a warranty. If something breaks, chances are Chevy pays to fix it anyway.

jg

If that sort of offer were available here, I'd be the first in line saying "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!"

If you go to Chevy's website they indicate the 7,000 Customer cash so the worst case scenario is the Dealer is "scaming" the 4,000 dealer price reduction to 36,000 from MSRP of 41K. There are enough local 2013 volts listed at ~$30-31K that I think it's real.

So what's the deal on the Tax credit? Do I just get $7500 tax credit in 2013 tax year if I buy one?

I really think this may be the route I go. The Volt seems like a nicer place to spend an hour a day then the other ~20K cars.

I thought the 7500 was a income tax deduction not a full credit this year so depending on your bracket that could be a issue. Bet you that the dealership is claiming the credit already in the deal.

Honestly a II Prius might be a better deal at 21K and change brand new with minimal negotiation and it will hold its value a heck of a lot better in my mind.

If that's a legit offer, you're a fool for not having it in your driveway already. Go get it. Seriously, don't stall, that's a steal.

The tax credit will apply to your 2013 taxes.

Bryce

Do you think a Volt is a vehicle that will have a useable life of 150K plus miles? The Prius C and regular Prius offer similar cost advantages however they have proven reliability past 100K miles.

The analysis I've done show a clear advantage over normal tech 40mpg cars however that would easily be wiped out by 1 expensive repair past 100K miles. Bryce what is your thoughts on the Volt as a vehicle to purchase for a 25k/yr useage with the hope to get 6+ years of reliable use?

I would hate to end up with a 130K mile paperweight.

The offer is legit. I got some Email feedback. They have discounted the car $4300 off MSRP. Chevy contributes 7,000 cash back. It would cost 29,620. The FED and State tax credits come off of that amount and go to Me. Several dealers in the area have cars advertised within 1500 of this one but this is the lowest at this time.

I've ridden in and driven a volt before and do enjoy it. It is more fun/interesting than the other ~17K cars I've driven however I expect a Ford Focus/Hyundai Elantra would provide 200-250K miles of 38mpg drving. Would the Volt provide the same?

In reply to nocones:

If you do it right, you could drive a Volt for however long it lasts and use (practically) no fuel. That's potentially much better than the ~40 mpg of a modern gas car. I don't know many people who would want to own a Focus or Elantra long enough to rack up 250K miles on one. Most people want something different after a while. Variety and all that.

Details in this thread: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/400gallon-gas-coming-bring-it-on/68941/page1/

I have a Volt. Only reason I have a Volt vs a 2015 Mazda 3 is the HOV sticker that allows me to use the HOV lane driving solo. It's a cool car but I'd rather drive something more fun with similar mileage like the 3. In my 130 mile, daily, mostly highway, round trip commute, I average low to mid 40s MPG. Again, the Mazda 3 would be more fun to drive.

The only certain reason I'm driving a Leaf instead of a Volt is that the back seats are uselessly cramped if you've got a six-footer in the front. I otherwise enjoyed my test drive and would've loved to do 95% of my driving on pure electric without needing to make other arrangements for road trips.

That sounds like a hell of a deal.

20,000 volts? Its the amps that kill you.

I don't have anything to offer on this thread other than I may have to check out local dealer inventories for Volts. The Leaf wouldn't get me to the airport and back, but the Volt would. I typically drive one or two days a week, with an airport trip every other week or so. Volt would be good for me.

4 days a week I would do 60 miles. 1 day a week 90. Right now that would all be on 1 charge so I would do ~130miles / WK on gas plus nights / weekends. Minimum would be ~$12 in gas. In a 40mpg car it would double. In my WRX it is $48. Last year I did about 10k non work miles and the volt would lower the cost of those but not as substantial over a 40mpg car. On paper it would be about 150% of the savings compared to a 40mpg car for me assuming all charging happens at home. My work apparently is installing charge stations so that could cut my costs even more.

Sounds like I need to test drive. Thanks for all the feedback keep it coming.

from my local Chevy dealer website:

Manufacturer Offer $7,000 cash back on select Chevrolet Volt models

Offer only valid 11-01-2013 through 1-02-2014

In reply to no cones:

So am I following you correctly here…

Buy brand new Volt for $29,620 + TTL.

Get $7500 Fed tax credit + $4000 IL tax credit.

Equals $18,120 + TTL paid for the Volt?

yes.

So after talking with my Wife it's Volt vs. Focus SE vs Sonic LTZ. Which one is better? All the other cars that have the options I desire cost significantly more.

I would only plug it in where I am legally permitted.

If I'm honest a big part of my hesitance is the fact that nearly 12k is government money. It seems somehow wrong to take advantage of..

nocones wrote: ...Volt vs. Focus SE vs Sonic LTZ. Which one is better?

Not necessarily better, but I imagine resale on the Volt will be highest, with the Focus 2nd and Sonic last. It sounds like you plan on keeping it until the wheels fall off(and maybe a while after that), so it's probably not a directly relevant factor. However, it's one that could affect whether the car was totaled or repaired after an accident.

For that matter, have you compared insurance rates? I wouldn't be surprised if the Volt is noticeably higher than the other 2.

nocones wrote: I would only plug it in where I am legally permitted. If I'm honest a big part of my hesitance is the fact that nearly 12k is government money. It seems somehow wrong to take advantage of..

I'm sure the gov. wants more and more cars like the volt on the road with the thought of cleaning up the environment for all of us. Also as a test bed for cars of this nature. It's there, take advantage of it.

nocones wrote: yes. So after talking with my Wife it's Volt vs. Focus SE vs Sonic LTZ. Which one is better? All the other cars that have the options I desire cost significantly more.

The Volt is much more car than the Focus or especially the Sonic. Even a "base" Volt is HIGHLY optioned. It's also one of the quietest cars you'll ever likely encounter.

As for 250k plus, I think your challenges would be similar to any other car. As for everyone's big worry—batteries—I'd cite a Consumer reports test that showed after 10 years of use, something like 80% of 1st gen Prius batteries still held at least 80% of their capacity. I just don't think it's the main problem to fear that some folks do.

jg

The Prius is heavily used as NYC taxi. What are the reports coming out from there? That is a harsh environment.
If I remember correctly, a NYC cab is only allowed to be in service 3 years or 300k miles, whichever comes first.

nocones wrote: Bryce what is your thoughts on the Volt as a vehicle to purchase for a 25k/yr useage with the hope to get 6+ years of reliable use?

I already told you my opinion...

Nashco wrote: Go get it.

There are two views you can take on what happens with a 2013 Volt in 6 years and 150k miles:

1. Wait and see. Once you have confirmed proper longevity of a 2013 Volt in 2019, travel back in time and buy a new 2013 Volt.

2. Reference the great reliability that the Volt and other GM hybrids have had in the field and assume the quality seen in the history of the predecessors will carry forward. Find smoking good deal on a 2013 Volt, put it in your driveway, and enjoy years of satisfaction, fuel savings, and EV grins.

Option 2 seems like a better plan to me, but I'm known to be biased towards cars that plug in.

Bryce

JG Pasterjak wrote: As for 250k plus, I think your challenges would be similar to any other car. As for everyone's big worry—batteries—I'd cite a Consumer reports test that showed after 10 years of use, something like 80% of 1st gen Prius batteries still held at least 80% of their capacity. I just don't think it's the main problem to fear that some folks do.

There is a lot of talk about this very thing. Nissan has had some of their batteries lose their state of charge (SOC) especially in AZ. The heat is rough on lithium batteries but Nissan also charges their batteries to a higher SOC and allows them the discharge to a lower SOC. This shortens battery life.

GM follows Toyota's philosophy (Toyota uses NiMH mostly) and keeps the SOC in the middle. They are kept quite a ways from 100% SOC and no where near 0% SOC as it dischargess.

Here's a very good fact-based story from mynissanleaf.com on the capacity issue.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss

So, if you have a hybrid or electric car with 150k or 200k+ miles on it and it does need a battery, what would you do? What would you do if your conventional car needed an engine at that mileage? car-part.com or Ebay. I just looked for a 2004 Prius battery on Ebay and they are going for $4-800 for most. There are others priced way above that but it would be easy to get a battery without a ton of miles for $6-700 or so. The fact is there are more totaled Prius' in wrecking yards with good batteries than there are worn out or failed batteries. Supply > demand and the prices are cheap.

Who knows what the life of a Volt or Leaf battery in 5-10 years will be but the Prius has rock solid reliability.

nocones wrote: 4 days a week I would do 60 miles. 1 day a week 90. Right now that would all be on 1 charge so I would do ~130miles / WK on gas plus nights / weekends. Minimum would be ~$12 in gas. In a 40mpg car it would double. In my WRX it is $48. Last year I did about 10k non work miles and the volt would lower the cost of those but not as substantial over a 40mpg car. On paper it would be about 150% of the savings compared to a 40mpg car for me assuming all charging happens at home. My work apparently is installing charge stations so that could cut my costs even more. Sounds like I need to test drive. Thanks for all the feedback keep it coming.

Beyond what I stated previously, the driving experience is decent. I have mostly driven sports cars (RX7s and e36 BMW) as my commuters. That is my perspective. The volt feels like a typical, not overly sporting sedan. The steering is light. Suspension is softish but well composed. Takes corners at a sporting clip reasonably well. A set of shocks and a sway bars would do a lot for making this chassis feel more sporting. The throttle input can be a little slow to match engine response to throttle pedal movement. This is noticeable when trying to make a hole in traffic - I still drive it like a sports car.

Interior is OK IMO. The center armrest interferes with my elbow often. Driver window buttons could be better positioned. The tech / infotainment center is pretty cool. The 'buttons' in the center stack are difficult to feel. You need to view them.

It's very useful that you can switch to full electric and back to gas engine powered electric. That way you can save the full electric for stop/go traffic and the gas engine powered electric for the higher speed highway stuff.

That's all I got.