20K Volt? Why wouldn't I?

Chris_V wrote:

Klayfish wrote: When it's running in ICE engine off mode, how much range does the heater drain from the battery? For the LEAF, it's significant. On a warm summer day, I can do 100 miles on a charge. In the really cold winter (like 15 degrees), if I run the heater full time I'll be lucky to go 60-65 miles. If I don't run the heater, maybe 75.

it's about the same percentage. the trick is to preheat the car while plugged in, then go to Eco or Fan only settings with the seat heater on to drive it. MUCH less impact to the range that way. I've been doing that for my commute here in the 25 degree weather and it works fine. If it drops to under that, I may run the engine for a bit to get the heat up at some point during the commute. it uses so little fuel even doing that that a tank will last months.

Yup, use all those tricks. I pre-heat the cabin to 84 while it's plugged in. Then I drive the car in Eco mode with my heated seat and heated steering wheel on. I try not to use the heater at all, or very sparingly if I need. Usually it's fine, the only thing that gets cold are my feet. Even with that, range is in the upper 60s. My commute is 50 round trip, so if I ran the heater full time, not sure it'd make it on really cold days.

The Volt is definitely going to be my next car. Will probably be looking to buy around this time next year. I was thinking about buying used, but if this kind of offer is around next year with the drop in MSRP for the 2014 cars, I will for sure be getting a new one.

What is the range that volt owners are getting? Running the numbers with 40mikes EV average and 45mpg after that I am getting only around $2k advantage over some normal options for the first 100k miles.

Several local dealerships have new 2014 Volts marked down to $31k. With the $7500 federal tax credit that means a $23,500 new Volt. That seems like a lot of new car for $23.5k. There is no state tax credit in Ohio, I think.

I ran the numbers with my inlaws and it's very difficult/impossible to make the Volt a viable financial decision. You have to buy it because you WANT to buy it. You're buying a very high performance car (performance being measured differently than we usually do) and that has to be what really excites you about it. It's sort of like buying a 400+hp car. Driving on the street day to day you're not really getting anything more than you would in a 250hp car, but it's fun to have.
The big thing about the $21k buy in is that a lot of people that wouldn't otherwise be able to play with this sort of car now can. When I wire my garage I'm putting in the bits and pieces that will allow a charger to be installed for something like this. We're very very close to these being accessible practical cars for a lot of people.

mazdeuce wrote: I ran the numbers with my inlaws and it's very difficult/impossible to make the Volt a viable financial decision. You have to buy it because you WANT to buy it. You're buying a very high performance car (performance being measured differently than we usually do) and that has to be what really excites you about it. It's sort of like buying a 400+hp car. Driving on the street day to day you're not really getting anything more than you would in a 250hp car, but it's fun to have. The big thing about the $21k buy in is that a lot of people that wouldn't otherwise be able to play with this sort of car now can. When I wire my garage I'm putting in the bits and pieces that will allow a charger to be installed for something like this. We're very very close to these being accessible practical cars for a lot of people.

Compare it to other new cars for that price though. I've only sat in one for about 2 minutes, but it does not feel like a cheap Chevy econo-box to me. It feels more like an Acura or Buick, a psuedo-luxury car.

mazdeuce wrote: I ran the numbers with my inlaws and it's very difficult/impossible to make the Volt a viable financial decision. You have to buy it because you WANT to buy it. You're buying a very high performance car (performance being measured differently than we usually do) and that has to be what really excites you about it. It's sort of like buying a 400+hp car. Driving on the street day to day you're not really getting anything more than you would in a 250hp car, but it's fun to have. The big thing about the $21k buy in is that a lot of people that wouldn't otherwise be able to play with this sort of car now can. When I wire my garage I'm putting in the bits and pieces that will allow a charger to be installed for something like this. We're very very close to these being accessible practical cars for a lot of people.

Yeah, this.

In the best cases the math works out about even with typical "economy" cars. But if we all bought cars based purely on math, the world would look much different than it does today. The thing I like about the Volt is that it is extremely feature rich. It's nice having bluetooth and awesome connectivity in my daily driver, as well as automatic climate control and power pretty much everything. Yes I may get the same "mileage" out of a less expensive car, but I wouldn't get the features, the driving experience, the quietness, or the fun. I have one as much because I like the technology and the experience as I do the savings.

And as for the savings, while the math may not be all there on paper, it sure seems like it in the real world. When I get the bill for the card I use for gas each month, I can really quickly tell how much I've been driving the Volt.

jg

In reply to mtn:

All the more reason to buy one now. I doubt the next Volt will be so nice. E car owners seem to be stratifying into two camps, those that can afford a Tesla, and cheap bastards. Not a ton of middle ground. GM is already making their 70k Cadillac version of the Volt, I bet the next common version is going to be heavily cheaped up. Pull 10k off the price and apply the credits and see how many you sell.
All of them.

How long have they been out, and what has the depreciation been looking like?

nocones wrote: What is the range that volt owners are getting? Running the numbers with 40mikes EV average and 45mpg after that I am getting only around $2k advantage over some normal options for the first 100k miles.

Only $2k? The Volt seems much nicer than other $20k cars, PLUS it saves you $2k while it's still in the warranty period. What "normal options" are you comparing it to? How much money do you think you should be saving when you buy the most technologically advanced car on the market? What is an acceptable "break even" point for you?

While you will save a ton of the cost of fuel with the Volt, it is important to be realistic with your expectations. I'm just trying to figure out what your expectations are so we can be on the same page as we follow along in your adventure.

Bryce

I'll dogpile on the comments about making financial sense. Compared to driving an old beater, the LEAF actually costs more per month. Comparing it to a base Kia Rio or Chevy Spark the price in the same ballpark. But my LEAF has auto climate control, heated leather seats (front and rear), heated steering wheel, connectivity galore...which I don't use much of, etc... I like that.

Klayfish wrote: I'll dogpile on the comments about making financial sense. Compared to driving an old beater, the LEAF actually costs more per month. Comparing it to a base Kia Rio or Chevy Spark the price in the same ballpark. But my LEAF has auto climate control, heated leather seats (front and rear), heated steering wheel, connectivity galore...which I don't use much of, etc... I like that.

As a lady who was looking at my Volt decided, it cost less to own a Volt or a Leaf than her current, paid off, 12 year old car that she was spending $300+ a month in gas for. AND had repair costs to deal with. Cheap paid off beaters are not always cheaper than a new economy car, and not necessarily even cheaper than a new feature laden car like the Volt or Leaf.

For me, I was already paying $300 a month plus insurance and fuel for a car that I was daily driving. The Volt saves me money on both fuel and insurance (over $250 a month combined) vs the car I already was paying on, so in that regard, it's cheaper to own than what I was driving.

For me in am trading in a vehicle that is worth 21k. I am looking at the volt, Focus, and Elantra. The volt is the nicest car of the bunch. The volt will require a 10,200 loan that I will get back at least $7500 of in march (fed) the Illinois rebate would be in ~june assuming there is funding so its not 100% guaranteed. My useage will be 25000 miles per year. The volt would offer a fuel cost of ~1400/yr at current expenses (premium plus 40miles pure EV 6x per week). Insurance is no savings compared to the wrx. The focus and elantra will both cost 16,000 to acquire so they start at either a $3500 or $7500 advantage depending on if the IL rebate is included. Gas would be $2100/yr insurance saves $250/yr giving the volt only a $500 advantage per year. Maintenance during then first 100k should be similar. I'm just not sure the payback is there which is why I am looking at >100k mile reliability.

Obviously this could be different if the volt could do more mikes EV or gas prices rose a lot. I'm not putting to much value on vehicle "quality" at this time meaning I'm really looking for lowest cost in a tolerable package.

For a guy with a tube-frame Midget you seem to be putting an awful lot of practical qualifiers on this decision.

At some point you can only split hair so finely. When you're down to within a few hundred bucks either way, i think it becomes a matter of "Which can you see yourself driving every day and being happiest with?" Saving a buck or two here or there isn't worth it if you hate your commute.

jg

I don't disagree however I've realized over the past few years that the happiest I have been with my vehicle situation was when I was DDing a Pontiac vibe base 5speed and using the money saved to persue other avenues of fun. Its entirely possible after some further review that I will decide the Volt is worth it or I may decide I want to just keep burning dinos with the wrx.

Also my phone makes me sound dumb as hell due to autocorrect. berkeley you auto correct

No state rebate in Florida.

I like the idea of buying a brand new $40k car for $20k. I might have to go check them out.

Klayfish wrote: I'll dogpile on the comments about making financial sense. Compared to driving an old beater, the LEAF actually costs more per month. Comparing it to a base Kia Rio or Chevy Spark the price in the same ballpark. But my LEAF has auto climate control, heated leather seats (front and rear), heated steering wheel, connectivity galore...which I don't use much of, etc... I like that.

Me too. I have zero (0) interest in a little econo car so why would I compare costs with one? The Volt replaced a Jag XJR as my daily and I actually prefer driving the Volt day-to-day. The Jag is still a better high speed cruiser.

My Volt goes back in 3 months. I love it and I'll miss all the convenience of EV driving but I won't be getting another. Ultimately, it's just too small for me to use daily. I want to put a bike inside several times a week and, while possible, it's a pain in the Volt and means I can't transport my daughter at the same time. I expect I'm going to get berkeleyed on the damage assessment too. Ally has the worst reputation. Noone to really blame but myself on that one though.

The Tesla is too expensive in my tenuous work situation and the other full electrics don't appeal to me. I'm going beater V70 Volvo next.

As with the recent Leaf threads, it's been interesting to see opinions change about plug-in cars in the past few years.

nocones wrote: I don't disagree however I've realized over the past few years that the happiest I have been with my vehicle situation was when I was DDing a Pontiac vibe base 5speed and using the money saved to persue other avenues of fun. Its entirely possible after some further review that I will decide the Volt is worth it or I may decide I want to just keep burning dinos with the wrx. Also my phone makes me sound dumb as hell due to autocorrect. berkeley you auto correct

So why not buy another vibtrix?

Question for you guys that have had them, what kind of maintenance and repair track record have you had?

I'm kinda circling the drain about the Volt, as it were. I have a heck of a hard time with the notion of spending that kind of money on a car, and a hard time with the notion of buying a new car. But...the idea of a car I do nothing with other than drive it to work, has some definite appeal these days.

Then I could have time to actually play with the pointless Spitfire, maybe.

So tonight I drove the Mazda 3 and the Elantra. The Mazda 3 is very nice. Interior quality is high, it drives like a Mazda. Power from the 2.0 skyactive was good however it did not feel very eager (that could be because I was driving the heaviest option group). Transmission was very notchy like Mazda wanted you to "feel" the gears. The interior was very cramped. My Right leg was restricted by the very wide centerconsole. The seats where quite narrow (I'm a bit larger at 240 6') and rear seat room was not huge. Overall I came away thinking the New 3 is very attractive car but was not for me. The Elantra exceeded my expectations in everyway imaginable. Aussie is 100% correct about this car. The rear seat room is immense. It is comparable to the Outback which if you've never ridden in one is huge. The car drove nicely, was quite, materials seemed of good quality and overall it does not seem like a bad place to be. I've been quoted 15500 out the door for a GLS manual. The dealer is letting me take one tomorrow for a 24 hour test drive and assuming it goes well this is probably the route I'm going to take.

I really did like the volt however I am admittedly hesitant due to the nature of my intended useage for the car. My breakeven point is really close to 100K miles and I am concerned about the reliability past that 100K threshold where the Volt really would start to money relative to the other vehicles. Obviously it is entirely possible that the Volt would provide a trouble free 200K miles of service providing 40miles of Electric use per day with ~45mpg efficiency after that. I have no evidence to the contrary however I am not really an "early adopter" and do not derive any enjoyment out of the technology aspect of the car.

How many Volt owners on the board OWN their car vs Lease? It sounds like a lot of Leasee's.

Leasing here. The technology is too immature and evolving for me to buy in. I'm not an early adopter either. It usually costs too much money to be an early adopter....

What are the lease deals on them right now?