323 GTX vs All Trac Celica

There's a LeMons team running an All-Trac Corolla with a Subaru WRC theme. Team Rally Rolla.

http://www.facebook.com/RallyRollaRacing

Awesome!

Damn 92CelicaHalfTrac I was gonna post that 211mph alltrac. lol
I'm so far gone in love with them that they've achieved mythical status.
I love 323GTX's too, alot. but they aren't in the same league.
DSM AWD's are literally RETARDED FAST when they are running.
find one, somehow, that was well taken care of, or find a shell and build it up right from a roller lol. or prepare to weep in frustration.
My friend and I are in the process of trying to revive his GTS front driver, and hopefully do the awd conversion on it. It's been dead, on and off, for a couple years now.
Some of that chalks up to being sent to retards that shouldn't be allowed to work on cars, but some of it is the nature of the beast.
My vote is st185 though, for sure

I think ST185 is out of budget for a toy for me right now tho. I've seen some nice looking ST165s too what are the big non cosmetic differences?

halftrac will know a hell of alot more than I do but I'm pretty sure they are largely unchanged, similar to differences between 1g and 2g dsm, except even less, if that makes sense..
st185s have a twin scroll ceramic turbo stock? I think thats it. it's a couple grand worth of difference, but ymmv
correct me if i'm wrong, of course.

Trans ratios are different, ST165 is water-to-air intercooler, single entry turbo, compression ratios are different, cams are different.

Less aftermarket specifically for the Gen 1 3sgte (ST165), but it's still pretty strong. Suspension design slightly different.

It's really a lot of little changes.

The 165 is a little harder to deal with when modifying, but not terrible, either. If it's a choice between getting a 165 because you can afford one vs. not getting anything because you can't afford a 185, i'd take a 165 all day every day.

Anything you can do to a 185, you can do to a 165.

I would LOVE to find a clean 165 with a blown motor to do an ST205 engine/driveline swap into.

For a toy, i would almost rather a 165. For a nice street car, i'd take a 185. For ultimate daily fapping on the way to work, ST205 please.

st 165 has a less stout open centerdiff gearbox as well, st185 got a viscous centerdiff, st2-5 got triplecone synchros. It also got heavier by some margine over the 185 and 165.

Er. The ST205 is actually lighter than the ST185 by about 100kg or so. It's really far better than the two previous cars except perhaps in the aftermarket department..

Info I'm finding says st165 weighs 1350kg, st185 weighs 1400kg and st205 weighs 1440. Or maybe only 1400 depending on which data page you like best. But it also got 4 piston calipers and a better turbo and such...

The weights in the various spec sheets seem somewhat off on that front. On scales the 185 is heavier than the 205 (although the 165 I think is in practice the lightest)

In any case as standard the 205 is much faster in a straight line and turns and brakes better..

IIRC, Toyota actually strengthened the floorpan of the 323GTX to withstand the rigors of rallying. It was a true homologation special, something you don't see too often these days.

The Celica was one of my favorite rally car of the pre-Subaru/Mitsu days. The image of them blasting across the old Rally Africa will forever be etched upon my psyche.

A zombie Celica is fine, too.

zombie st185 is always better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd1CiTy_ikM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mS0XIovgeY

Javelin wrote: All of the old rally specials are cool as ice to me! The 323GTX, the AWD Protege, the Celica AllTrac, the Subie 2.5RS, the ur-Quattro. I want all of them! Also the AMC Spirit SX/4, the Mitsu Evo III, the Galant VR-4, and and and

Well, don't forget the '91 Isuzu Impulse RS !!!

The Safari Grill, lights, tire rack etc are available on the ST185 in forza :)

dbgrubbs wrote:

Javelin wrote: All of the old rally specials are cool as ice to me! The 323GTX, the AWD Protege, the Celica AllTrac, the Subie 2.5RS, the ur-Quattro. I want all of them! Also the AMC Spirit SX/4, the Mitsu Evo III, the Galant VR-4, and and and

Well, don't forget the '91 Isuzu Impulse RS !!!

Yep!

And that was "the other" awd turbo car available in the US that was lighter than the AllTrac.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Obviously not a rally car, but this car trapped 211mph in the standing mile. Stock, original transmission, t-case, and axles. It's since put down 900awhp, with more on tap. (Now with a dogbox) http://youtu.be/clwBs9eNOf4

I am pretty sure thats Pat's car, he lives a few blocks from my house. Use to have an ST165 as well

I have an '89 ST165 that I have owned since the mid 90's, never sold it as to me its such a fun little car. Having driven both ST185s and ST165s I always liked how the 165s handled over the 185.

J

Slippery wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Obviously not a rally car, but this car trapped 211mph in the standing mile. Stock, original transmission, t-case, and axles. It's since put down 900awhp, with more on tap. (Now with a dogbox) http://youtu.be/clwBs9eNOf4

I am pretty sure thats Pat's car, he lives a few blocks from my house. Use to have an ST165 as well I have an '89 ST165 that I have owned since the mid 90's, never sold it as to me its such a fun little car. Having driven both ST185s and ST165s I always liked how the 165s handled over the 185. J

Yep, that's Pat's car.

There's another guy named Trevor that has a dark charcoal colored one that's not far off from Pat's numbers, but he hasn't done a standing mile.

I agree with your thoughts on 165 vs. 185. The 165 just feels a bit more fun. The 185 is pretty "serious business." The 165 feels more like an AWD MR2.

Sounds like I would prefer a 165 from the fun nature, but the st185 is sex

You can make the 185 fun, and it's probably easier to live with these days in terms of parts availability. It really ends up being a wash in the end. Neither car is "logical" in the year 2012, so i'd just buy the one that gives you the bigger chubby.

Welll..... if we are including All-Trac Corollas in the mix..... meet Grunt my DD

And a method to mount both the original 4wd lock out AND a S/C

In reply to oldeskewltoy:

You beautiful bastard!