In reply to edizzle89 :
Well, of course it is! That makes total sense now.
In reply to edizzle89 :
Well, of course it is! That makes total sense now.
MotorsportsGordon said:If I was doing a v8 swap on this I’d consider a big block I’m not sure the fit but I’m sure the v12 takes up lots and most like more room then the big block. Plus if it’s a complete car you will have a turbo 400 transmission there. A new adaptor plate etc would be needed. Hmmm maybe a Cadillac 500 in a jag tha would be a neat combo.
The big block won’t fit. Too wide! Away from home so I can’t measure it but it’s only like 19 inches wide. Pretty long though. 32 inches off the top of my head.
As for getting it reliable you can’t. The problem isn’t the motor which is impossibly stout. It’s the wiring. Obscure electronics. Modules that change too often to keep track of.
Want a simple reliable motor? Buy the 2 four barrel manifold that takes a pair of Holly’s and goes on the Jaguar. use a Holly fuel pump. Engine will run forever.
TED_fiestaHP said:I always liked these, hope you get it and teach us all about it. I heard the engine has basically 2 separate injection systems, so it might run on one bank of 6, but I could be wrong.
There does seem to be a lot of complex stuff under the hood. I had a Porsche 928 and that seemed simpler.
You are right. Open the hood and 95% of mechanics are frightened. The other 4% don’t know enough to be frightened.
yupididit said:z31maniac said:TED_fiestaHP said:I always liked these, hope you get it and teach us all about it. I heard the engine has basically 2 separate injection systems, so it might run on one bank of 6, but I could be wrong.
There does seem to be a lot of complex stuff under the hood. I had a Porsche 928 and that seemed simpler.
That's the way old BMW V12s were in the 8 series. Basically two M20s put together, two ECUs, etc.
Basically every v12 developed in the 80's and 90's ran on 2 ECU's. Megasquirt can fix that now.
It’s a good thing the Jag was developed in the 60’s and started being sold in 1971
I want one of these in the worst way, for two reasons:
Reason the first: because pretty
#B: I rode in one when I was 15, and it was one of the first cars I ever drove on public roads (I love rural living). I don't remember the ride quality, handling, visibility, or ergonomics, but that sound! The sound is still with me.
Reliability be damned. If it it still available and you don't buy it for any reason aside from terminal rust, well... Internet shun.
I tell myself i want a jag v12 so i can swap it into an XK8 but i recently passed on a technically running xk8 coupe for $2000. I'm going to internally heckle myself now.
Curious how the white car with the dozen little stacks was set up as far as induction, spark etc. Basically, how did they set it up to run reliably?
Message sent but no response yet.
Holley has a plug-n-play 4-barrel self-contained EFI setup. How about 2 of those on a V12?
Toyman01 said:This would probably be a spectacularly bad idea, but I really do like these cars.
Not running, he's "pretty sure" it's the fuel relay. Also some rust in the passenger floorboards. The pictures look good but I'm betting they aren't current.
So tempting. I'm probably going to have to call him tomorrow. I hope it's already sold.
What is your goal? Street, race, daily driver?
I’m as serious a Jag guy as you will find and I won’t daily drive a Jaguar. The problem is the wiring. You are one sensor failure, one module failure one loose wire away from parked on the side of the road.
No on board diagnostics. Sensors and modules that change frequently enough that it’s pretty hard to keep track of which one you’ve got. Plus poor dealer supported parts system. Independent dealers try very hard but it’s difficult and expensive to keep a supply of parts on hand. Nearby is a great supply of used and scrapped Jaguars. Strandburg Auto in Centuria Wisconsin. They have as good a stock as anybody. Yet I won’t daily drive a Jaguar.
I’ll race them. They make solid, reliable, impressive, and cheap race cars. Because you reduce and simplify the unreliable stuff out of them.
On my race car I intend to swap all the Lucas sensors for GM and use the Megasquirt ECM.
barefootskater said:I want one of these in the worst way, for two reasons:
Reason the first: because pretty
#B: I rode in one when I was 15, and it was one of the first cars I ever drove on public roads (I love rural living). I don't remember the ride quality, handling, visibility, or ergonomics, but that sound! The sound is still with me.
Reliability be damned. If it it still available and you don't buy it for any reason aside from terminal rust, well... Internet shun.
I’ve run across a fair number of Rust free Jaguars. A lot of owners treated them like a prized possession and never drove them in the winter.
Antihero said:Well....there are companies that specilize in ripping out the v12 and putting in a SBC.
I know 2 people who own v12 jags. I also know 0 people with running v12 Jags
Please come by the Minnesota Jaguar club. They can be made reliable. The first step is to download the Kirby Palm book. 700 plus pages and it’s free! All you need to know.
Dr. Hess said:And the V12 was the reliable part of that car.
A retired mechanic in our club, very, very experienced, had a shop in NJ. He eventually refused to work on V12 Jags. They would go out the door running, break down somewhere, call him, he'd come to tow them to the shop and they would be gone after the ignition module (mounted thoughtfully on top of the engine where, like, there's no heat to damage it, right?) cooled off and the thing started up again.
That module was made by Ford. It’s been upgraded since because Ford had a whole bunch of trouble with it.
Vigo said:I tell myself i want a jag v12 so i can swap it into an XK8 but i recently passed on a technically running xk8 coupe for $2000. I'm going to internally heckle myself now.
Hmmm the Jag V8 is very light, the Jag V12 is not.
rslifkin said:In reply to Toyman01 :
I feel like that's true about a lot (but not all) of the stereotypically unreliable cars in the world. Most of them just need enough attention and tinkering (and hate being ignored or undermaintained) and might need a few modifications here and there to fix some factory induced design stupidity.
Download Kirby Palms book on the XJS it’s free ( 700+ pages) and will tell you everything you need to know
z31maniac said:Why do I have an overwhelming desire to get one of these and do it up like an old DTM/Touring car?
I’d like to do a Group 44 tribute car
Vigo said:I tell myself i want a jag v12 so i can swap it into an XK8 but i recently passed on a technically running xk8 coupe for $2000. I'm going to internally heckle myself now.
Bruh where?!
frenchyd said:What is your goal? Street, race, daily driver?
My goal? Play with it until it pissed me off and sell it. It would certainly be different than the Abomination and just as weird at a autocross.
At $800 it would probably go to the Challenge in October as it sits and run in the sub $1000 class. Assuming I could get it running on the cheap.
He still hasn't contacted me. My guess is he never will.
frenchyd said:Dr. Hess said:And the V12 was the reliable part of that car.
A retired mechanic in our club, very, very experienced, had a shop in NJ. He eventually refused to work on V12 Jags. They would go out the door running, break down somewhere, call him, he'd come to tow them to the shop and they would be gone after the ignition module (mounted thoughtfully on top of the engine where, like, there's no heat to damage it, right?) cooled off and the thing started up again.
That module was made by Ford. It’s been upgraded since because Ford had a whole bunch of trouble with it.
That would make sense. I bet it's the same module that was used on a 76 Ford Elite (351M). We had one of those and the ignition went out all the time. Who'd a thunk it was a Jaguar part?
I'll also mention again that I know a guy that builds V12's as a hobby. Any V12, not just Jags. He said the stock Jag V12 bottom end was good for 1000 HP.
I had an Series 2 XJ12L in my foolish youth. 4 Zenith Strombergs and a single radiator unit that encompassed the coolant, the trans cooler, the oil cooler and the A/C condensor. Oddly enough, it overheated all the time. Re and re on the rad was listed at 8 hours! The engine compartment was so tightly packed that if you dropped a tool, you'd never see it again. I swear they must have dropped the engine in from 8 feet up to get it to wedge in there! The battery had its own cooling fan - nuf said.
Turboeric said:I had an Series 2 XJ12L in my foolish youth. 4 Zenith Strombergs and a single radiator unit that encompassed the coolant, the trans congrats , the oil cooler and the A/C condensor. Oddly enough, it overheated all the time. Re and re on the rad was listed at 8 hours! The engine compartment was so tightly packed that if you dropped a tool, you'd never see it again. I swear they must have dropped the engine in from 8 feet up to get it to wedge in there! The battery had its own cooling fan - nuf said.
Overheating when it happens everyone thinks it’s the fault of the radiator. Never is! The problem is ignition timing! Yep! If you read the owners manual it tells you to oil the distributor.
The overheating problem could have been fixed with a few drops of oil. There is no oil path to the distributor. So the advance mechanism freezes up, the timing is off and overheating occurs. That simple!
As far as crowded engine compartment, yes it is. It can be dealt with by getting rid of everything not needed to make power. The Air Conditioning hides a really good looking engine. The stock Lucas alternator is 3 times bigger than it needs to be. The air pump is a by product of pollution laws made worse by their solutions.
This is the early days of solving pollution issues. The first solutions aren’t always the best or most efficient.
Today there are small, elegant, efficient, replacements for the mess under the hood. That would revel just how beautiful that engine is.
PS that is the last Jaguar designed by Sir William Lyons. Look at the beautiful curves and elegant lines of that really classic looking car. Not bad for. 4 door sedan.
Toyman01 said:frenchyd said:What is your goal? Street, race, daily driver?
My goal? Play with it until it pissed me off and sell it. It would certainly be different than the Abomination and just as weird at a autocross.
At $800 it would probably go to the Challenge in October as it sits and run in the sub $1000 class. Assuming I could get it running on the cheap.
He still hasn't contacted me. My guess is he never will.
To gain reliability, simply replace all the sensors with GM sensors. While you are at it may as well replace the injectors with GM flex fuel. Then use a Megasquirt
. Throw away that big ugly York A/C compressor and all attending HVAC stuff. Same with the air pump and lines. Get rid of that ambulance sized Lucas Alternator and replace that with a GM one or that little Nippondenso Alternator.
The power steering pump is a simple GM pump . But it spins too fast so the steering lacks feel. Easy enough to fix.
You can plug the hole from the air pump lines in the intake manifold with little Allen head pipe taps. Removing all that debris means air will once again flow through the engine compartment eliminating the need for the air conditioned fuel lines. ( honest, I didn’t make that up )
put the battery in the trunk. Eliminating the need for a fan cooling the battery.
Oil the distributor. ( its simple) that will eliminate overheating problems. But check that the vacuum advance/retard unit in the distributor hasn’t given up the ghost.
Now, rust!! Are the floors just rusty or do they have rust holes?
Any rust bubbles around the base of the windshield? If so chances are the drains got plugged at some point and basically the car is spare parts and scrap metal.
One other area that can mean the death of the car. The trailing arm mount for the rear suspension. If those rear floor boards have rust holes around the mount don’t bother trying to save the car.
Swapping in a 4-5-6 speed manual transmission is simple. The bell housing has pilot holes for a Chevy bell housing. All that’s needed is a adaptor plate that’s just a matter of a 3/8ths transfer punch. It’s a few hours work at most.
Brakes? The heavy cast Iron calipers use a standard mounting bracket. I like Wildwood calipers. Bolt right on and are almost cheaper than rebuilding the originals. Definitely lighter and better looking.
Wheels ? Use Corvette! Only the locating ring is slightly smaller. Easy to make an adapter. I’ve run without too.
Stock the XJS weighs about 4200 pounds plus driver fuel and etc. It can be reduced to around 3000 pounds just by removing stuff and it will still look the same. 300 hp or 350 with E85 and 3000 pounds isn’t bad.*
Want 500horsepower? A pair of T3 Chinese hair driers one on each side in the fender behind the tires. But you are working with 11.5-1 compression already.
You can get the weight down around 2500 pounds but we’re talking about making fiberglass splash molds and carbon fiber parts.
500 hp and 2500 pounds is getting into the serious fun area.
* stripping the weight that much will cause the car to ride high. Just chop a couple of coils out of the springs to lower it back down. That will stiffen the ride up enough so handling is much improved. You can also lower the car another inch by eliminating the rubber suspension mounts.
frenchyd said:TED_fiestaHP said:I always liked these, hope you get it and teach us all about it. I heard the engine has basically 2 separate injection systems, so it might run on one bank of 6, but I could be wrong.
There does seem to be a lot of complex stuff under the hood. I had a Porsche 928 and that seemed simpler.
You are right. Open the hood and 95% of mechanics are frightened. The other 4% don’t know enough to be frightened.
I wrench in the shadow of the bonnet of Coventry, for I am not afraid.
frenchyd said:
Toyman01 said:frenchyd said:What is your goal? Street, race, daily driver?
My goal? Play with it until it pissed me off and sell it. It would certainly be different than the Abomination and just as weird at a autocross.
At $800 it would probably go to the Challenge in October as it sits and run in the sub $1000 class. Assuming I could get it running on the cheap.
He still hasn't contacted me. My guess is he never will.
To gain reliability, simply replace all the sensors with GM sensors. While you are at it may as well replace the injectors with GM flex fuel. Then use a Megasquirt
. Throw away that big ugly York A/C compressor and all attending HVAC stuff. Same with the air pump and lines. Get rid of that ambulance sized Lucas Alternator and replace that with a GM one or that little Nippondenso Alternator.
The power steering pump is a simple GM pump . But it spins too fast so the steering lacks feel. Easy enough to fix.
You can plug the hole from the air pump lines in the intake manifold with little Allen head pipe taps. Removing all that debris means air will once again flow through the engine compartment eliminating the need for the air conditioned fuel lines. ( honest, I didn’t make that up )
put the battery in the trunk. Eliminating the need for a fan cooling the battery.
Oil the distributor. ( its simple) that will eliminate overheating problems. But check that the vacuum advance/retard unit in the distributor hasn’t given up the ghost.
Now, rust!! Are the floors just rusty or do they have rust holes?
Any rust bubbles around the base of the windshield? If so chances are the drains got plugged at some point and basically the car is spare parts and scrap metal.
One other area that can mean the death of the car. The trailing arm mount for the rear suspension. If those rear floor boards have rust holes around the mount don’t bother trying to save the car.
Swapping in a 4-5-6 speed manual transmission is simple. The bell housing has pilot holes for a Chevy bell housing. All that’s needed is a adaptor plate that’s just a matter of a 3/8ths transfer punch. It’s a few hours work at most.
Brakes? The heavy cast Iron calipers use a standard mounting bracket. I like Wildwood calipers. Bolt right on and are almost cheaper than rebuilding the originals. Definitely lighter and better looking.
Wheels ? Use Corvette! Only the locating ring is slightly smaller. Easy to make an adapter. I’ve run without too.
Stock the XJS weighs about 4200 pounds plus driver fuel and etc. It can be reduced to around 3000 pounds just by removing stuff and it will still look the same. 300 hp or 350 with E85 and 3000 pounds isn’t bad.*
Want 500horsepower? A pair of T3 Chinese hair driers one on each side in the fender behind the tires. But you are working with 11.5-1 compression already.
You can get the weight down around 2500 pounds but we’re talking about making fiberglass splash molds and carbon fiber parts.
500 hp and 2500 pounds is getting into the serious fun area.
* stripping the weight that much will cause the car to ride high. Just chop a couple of coils out of the springs to lower it back down. That will stiffen the ride up enough so handling is much improved. You can also lower the car another inch by eliminating the rubber suspension mounts.
Short version: Just buy a vette. 
In reply to poopshovel again :
By an el cheapo C4 and install a Jag V12 and blow peoples' minds.
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