AM V12 vs Ford V6

I wonder what others think about this "controversy"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E54Nyfc_yvw

Especially those who may not know about the truth based on what they have gotten info from this very board (which I assure you is/was very correct).

They had access to Ford's parts bin. Why would they not use parts from it. Beyond that, does it really matter where the pistons and rods came from? An engine is the sum of all the parts. Not just the Ford parts. 

I suppose everyone needs something to get worked up about, but unless they're snapping rods or cracking pistons every thousand miles why would it matter if that same part number is used in a more mundane vehicle?  I bet they use the exact same blade fuses that Nissan put in the Versa, too.  Big deal.

LOL what's the problem, some snobs feel cheated that their Aston's engine has some internals from a common plebian's car in it?

GameboyRMH said:

LOL what's the problem, some snobs feel cheated that their Aston's engine has some internals from a common plebian's car in it?

If they are worried about that, they should be terrified of who did the engineering.

This sounds like a solution in need of a problem. Lots of manufacturers cross pollinate and combine the best engineering features of multiple brands. If there’s a good solution that’s already been worked out by another company, I don’t see the problem in tweaking it to suit your needs. But, then, I doubt I’d ever be in a position to afford an Aston anyway. 

Not news:  People who don't know how the auto industry works share opinions based on how they think it works.

Knurled. said:

Not news:  People who don't know how the auto industry works share opinions based on how they think it works.

It's also been 20 years since the V12 went into production the first time.  

But I'm still interested in what people think about it.  Including what they heard about the "truth".   Spoiler- I do have a vested interest in this for personal reasons.  Not because I'm getting  car or anything.

So what if it is? 

This certainly isn't news to me, but I guess I'm something of an insider, or at least I was. In any case, I've owned a bunch of vehicles with Duratec V6s and their variants in them, and they are great engines. I can only imagine that doubling them up makes them even better.

soooo - who makes the coupler to bolt the rear crank of a duratec v6 to the front crank of a duratec v6?

Knurled. said:

Not news:  People who don't know how the auto industry works share opinions based on how they think it works.

I've been reading all of your posts in Grandpa Simpson's voice since you changed your avatar. It's been fun 

I've never driven a duratec v6. How related/not related is it to the mazda k-something 2.5 v6?

barefootskater said:

I've never driven a duratec v6. How related/not related is it to the mazda k-something 2.5 v6?

It's not.  The K series isn't the same as the Duratec 2.5, which is also not the Duratec 3.0. And, ironically, the duratec 3.0l found it's way into many Mazdas.

My comment to the video is that the base engine didn't come from a Mondeo, but a Taurus.  Plus, the "Porsche" addition is pretty minor- they were consultants on the 2.5l in the early 90's, and it's not related to any other P engine.

Yes Mazda licensed the duratec V6 for their own models.

Not mentioned is that the ford motor was used in Noland Supercars with twin turbos and a ridiculous power level!

The motor is also used in Lincolns and some Jaguars i believe.

And isn't the V8 Exploder motor also based on this design?

bentwrench said:

Yes Mazda licensed the duratec V6 for their own models.

Not mentioned is that the ford motor was used in Noland Supercars with twin turbos and a ridiculous power level!

The motor is also used in Lincolns and some Jaguars i believe.

And isn't the V8 Exploder motor also based on this design?

Lincoln LS and Jag S type has the 3.0l engine (which also ended up in one Miata).  Jag did more work to hide their association with Ford, IMHO.  Or at least try to.

But the V8 Explorer is not based on the Duratec.  The only v8 in the Explorer was the old 5.0 that can trace it's root to the old small block.

So one other interesting, and related note- there WAS a welded together V12.  Two that I know of- one that ended up in the GT90, and one that eventually ended up in a Town Car.  These were based on a 4.0l version of the modular 4.6l- so it was a 90 deg V12  The block and heads were cut and welded together, the crank and cams were custom made.

alfadriver said:

bentwrench said:

Yes Mazda licensed the duratec V6 for their own models.

Not mentioned is that the ford motor was used in Noland Supercars with twin turbos and a ridiculous power level!

The motor is also used in Lincolns and some Jaguars i believe.

And isn't the V8 Exploder motor also based on this design?

Lincoln LS and Jag S type has the 3.0l engine (which also ended up in one Miata).  Jag did more work to hide their association with Ford, IMHO.  Or at least try to.

But the V8 Explorer is not based on the Duratec.  The only v8 in the Explorer was the old 5.0 that can trace it's root to the old small block.

Some Explorers also had 4.6s.  Bundles of joy.  One of the first repair jobs I did for my new company was cats and manifolds on a 4.6 Explorer.  The F-150s are user easy to work on in comparison, even before figuring that some derphead replaced all the studs (on the head and at the outlets) with grade-Jif bolts.  Amongst other really stupid moves.  I ranted about this truck before..

I thoiught it was common knowledge that the Aston V12 was 3 liter Duratec based! 

In reply to alfadriver :

Can I ask what you did with it? I know from previous posts you were pretty involved with the Aston design at the end of the 90s, but what parts of it, if you can reveal such information? 

In reply to Knurled. :

Oh, totally forgot about those!  Thanks for the reminder.  I put them totally out of my mind.

RevRico said:

In reply to alfadriver :

Can I ask what you did with it? I know from previous posts you were pretty involved with the Aston design at the end of the 90s, but what parts of it, if you can reveal such information? 

Pretty much what I do now- I was a calibrator.  So I was one of the people who put the numbers into the tune and made it work.  Not so directly fully to production- as we contracted Cosworth Engineering to do most of the calibration, I was more a co-ordinator between the various Ford teams and Cosworth.  Did manage to go on some development trips- the most fun was some traction control work I did with a few Aston engineers.  It was fun, as my first overseas work trip was to visit AML when they had finished the first DB7 V12 prototype.  Really cool car that we eventually had in the US for work.

The second and third Aston with this motor (the Vanquish and DB9) were all developed with Ford engineers, no Cosworth.  And I was not part of those teams.

There was some more work in the couple of engines prior to the DB7 installation- dyno work and the Indigo show car that actually drove.  That was really fun.

If I'm not wrong the V8 the Jags use is based on the Taurus SHO V8. Both Jag and Aston  were owned by Ford st the time when those engines (V8 & V12)  architecture  were introduced.

The SHO V8 was a really goofy engine not really related to anything else - it was a 60 degree V8!

Yeah at one point, Ford had something like five or six separate V8 architectures running at the same time, mostly for one-off models or lone platforms (the 3.9 was only ever used in the LS/S-type/Thunderbird)

jimbbski said:

If I'm not wrong the V8 the Jags use is based on the Taurus SHO V8. Both Jag and Aston  were owned by Ford st the time when those engines (V8 & V12)  architecture  were introduced.

Sadly, you are wrong.  The SHO V8 is totally Yamaha, so I suspect it's based on the previous V6 of theirs. 

The Jag v8 was a totally new engine when it came out, shared with the V8 in the LS and also in a later Aston Martin.

Neither of those families are related to the V12.

Knurled. said:

Yeah at one point, Ford had something like five or six separate V8 architectures running at the same time, mostly for one-off models or lone platforms (the 3.9 was only ever used in the LS/S-type/Thunderbird)

Ironically, the number of times that someone said that engines would reduce is so many, it makes your head spin.  So much that we still have way too many engines.  Very frustrating.