Another (more specific) what car thread

Ok, this is kinda a follow up thread to one I started before. It looks like I might be getting a job about 53 miles from my house and I want to switch to a more economical car. Here's my criteria: I'd like to get uppers 20's MPG on the highway
Be comfortable (by comparison, I'd rate my old 1989 Jeep Grand Wagoneer as a 8.5 - 9 on a scale of 10 and my classic mini as a 3)
Reliable (I can fix my own stuff but don't want to wrench all weekend just so I can go to work on Monday)
Economical to own (fuel economy and repairs costs/frequency combined)
Fun-ish to drive (gotta rule out Tauruseseses and Camrys) Has to seat at least one person (just seeing if you are still reading)
Here's what I had in mind before you guys infected me with a even worse strain of automotive ADD:
E30 3 series
E36 3 series
Miata
Now, between you guys and a buddy of mine I've started to think about:
2ND Gen MR2
240SX
P71 (what kind of economy though)
So, what other cars am I forgetting about?
BTW, budget is less than 5K

DrBoost wrote: I'd like to get uppers 20's MPG on the highway Be comfortable Reliable Economical to own (fuel economy and repairs costs/frequency combined) Fun-ish to drive Has to seat at least one person Here's what I had in mind before you guys infected me with a even worse strain of automotive ADD: E30 3 series E36 3 series Miata 2ND Gen MR2 240SX P71 (what kind of economy though)

All of those work, pretty good list there. You know about them all. If it were me, I'd go with the Miata or one of the three's.
On the P71... It will be the most comfortable on the highway, arguably the lowest cost to own (based on insurance, gas mileage, and reliability on our 99 CV), but probably not quite what you are looking for.

I stopped at 2nd gen MR2. Do it.

Saturn SC2?

Nissan SE-R?

Boost, are you open to Fail Wheel Drive? I've got some others... but i don't think they beat an MR2. SW20s are the E36 M3.

Hmm... to be honest, I do drive 100+ miles a day... and couldn't imagine doing that commute in any car that gets less than the 46 mpg (lifetime average) of my TDI...

Actually - I can imagine... When the TDI was down for service for awhile, I drove our '07 MINI Cooper 'vert for about a month... even at the 34 mpg it gets, it was killing me to be filling it up every 4 days...

mtn wrote: On the P71... It will be the most comfortable on the highway

The seats are terrible so a trip to the junkyard for something that isn't a spineless bag of foam is in order but otherwise... probably true.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

mtn wrote: On the P71... It will be the most comfortable on the highway

The seats are terrible so a trip to the junkyard for something that isn't a spineless bag of foam is in order but otherwise... probably true.

Don't know about the actual cop-cruisers... Ours was special ordered from the Ford Factory to be a P71 (or whatever it was called in 99) with a civilian interior. I loved those seats on a long ride, kinda like a big couch.
I'd expect Lincoln seats to go right in.

the p71 would be the big winner to me on all catagories except fuel economy.

a 325e would be sweet

93celicaGT2 wrote: Boost, are you open to Fail Wheel Drive? I've got some others... but i don't think they beat an MR2. SW20s are the E36 M3.

Man, with my bizzare taste in cars I'm open to anything.

Don't know if you can find one in your neck of the woods that isn't a total rust heap, but a 90's vintage Civic Si is worth considering. I consistently get 35 to 40 mpg in my '93 in my current 52 mile commute.

Type Q wrote: Don't know if you can find one in your neck of the woods that isn't a total rust heap, but a 90's vintage Civic Si is worth considering. I consistently get 35 to 40 mpg in my '93 in my current 52 mile commute.

I thought Honda followed in AMCs footsteps and delivered every new car to the dealer with rust accelerator sprayed all over?

DrBoost wrote:

Type Q wrote: Don't know if you can find one in your neck of the woods that isn't a total rust heap, but a 90's vintage Civic Si is worth considering. I consistently get 35 to 40 mpg in my '93 in my current 52 mile commute.

I thought Honda followed in AMCs footsteps and delivered every new car to the dealer with rust accelerator sprayed all over?

Yep. Especially in your area.

Saab 9000 Turbo
MX6
Integra GSR
Prelude
Celica

etc etc etc... sporty japanese fwd cars... most of them are pretty comfy. Civics aren't.

Type Q wrote: Don't know if you can find one in your neck of the woods that isn't a total rust heap, but a 90's vintage Civic Si is worth considering. I consistently get 35 to 40 mpg in my '93 in my current 52 mile commute.

I miss my EG hatch terribly. Great mileage like you said, fast enough for a DD (arguable), excellent handling, and a surprising amount of utility with the seats folded down. That car did everything I asked it to do and more, with nary a hiccup.

That said, I'd pick a SW20 MR2 out of that list. Maybe a Bimmer. Depends on how much utility you want.

93celicaGT2 wrote: etc etc etc... sporty japanese fwd cars... most of them are pretty comfy. Civics aren't.

I would say my GSR is only marginally more comfy than my Si hatch. Extra torque definitely makes daily driving a bit more relaxed. There are trade-offs in weight and mileage though.

Hey Tommy. In my last thread you mentioned that you DD an E30. Can you tell me what the repair prices are like if you've had to do much to it?

Matt B wrote:

93celicaGT2 wrote: etc etc etc... sporty japanese fwd cars... most of them are pretty comfy. Civics aren't.

I would say my GSR is only marginally more comfy than my Si hatch. Extra torque definitely makes daily driving a bit more relaxed. There are trade-offs in weight and mileage though.

I tend to like the seats way better in the GSRs, but that's pretty easily fixed in most civic. I like the seating position better in the GSRs, too, now that i think about it.

Civic interiors past the EF just don't agree with my personal needs i guess.

Ian F wrote: Hmm... to be honest, I do drive 100+ miles a day... and couldn't imagine doing that commute in any car that gets less than the 46 mpg (lifetime average) of my TDI... Actually - I can imagine... When the TDI was down for service for awhile, I drove our '07 MINI Cooper 'vert for about a month... even at the 34 mpg it gets, it was killing me to be filling it up every 4 days...

I'm afraid of VW reliability. How has yours been?

93celicaGT2 wrote: I tend to like the seats way better in the GSRs, but that's pretty easily fixed in most civic. I like the seating position better in the GSRs, too, now that i think about it. Civic interiors past the EF just don't agree with my personal needs i guess.

I put a pair of seats out of a DelSol in mine. They are very comfortable. I'm a little over 6'3" and they got my head out of the headliner.

I bought my Civic used in Boston a year after I left Michigan. It had some rust on it but nothing like you get from the MDOT annual salt bath. When I moved to California 11 years ago, all rust stopped.

93celicaGT2 wrote: I tend to like the seats way better in the GSRs, but that's pretty easily fixed in most civic. I like the seating position better in the GSRs, too, now that i think about it. Civic interiors past the EF just don't agree with my personal needs i guess.

Now that you mention it - I did have some back-aches on long drives with my civic that don't seem to be as much of an issue now. It wasn't anything you would notice on a 20-30 minute drive, but there was something weird going on ergonomically in the lumbar region.

The P71 is a great choice if the highway cruiser is your main usage. Don't let the "not comfy" people fool you, all CV's have the same wiring harness. Just grab the swank Grand Marquis interior from a U-Pull and plug everything in (seriously, the wiring is under the carpet and behind the dash for all of the options). Also, my P71 has cruise, A/C, tilt, and power seats (I did swap out for manuals because they were more comfortable to me). Carpet kits are $89 on eBay, NOS back seats are everywhere (I found one locally in the color I wanted brand new in the box less than 48 hours after buying mine for $35).

Highway mileage will vary depending on gearing and your driving style. Keep in mind that with a tuner taking away the speed limiter and raising revs mine will do 95MPH in 2nd gear. Drive like grandpa and 23-25 is easy to do on 87 swill. Lower it a bit (cut front springs, civilian rears), take off the push bumpers/spotlights/etc and I imagine the aero would be way better.

OTOH it is a giant boat with a column-shifted auto. I love our Miata and miss my old RX-7. There's just something about a small motor that loves to rev paired with a stick. We're seeing 22-24 in the Miata (60-75% city) with the hardtop and 1.6. Once I finish the tune up and get better tires on there I expect higher.

mtn wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

mtn wrote: On the P71... It will be the most comfortable on the highway

The seats are terrible so a trip to the junkyard for something that isn't a spineless bag of foam is in order but otherwise... probably true.

Don't know about the actual cop-cruisers... Ours was special ordered from the Ford Factory to be a P71 (or whatever it was called in 99) with a civilian interior. I loved those seats on a long ride, kinda like a big couch. I'd expect Lincoln seats to go right in.

Yup. Go to the JY and pick any 94-2010 Crown Vic/Grand Marq/Town Car and grab-and-go. Even if they are power, leather, and butt-warmer equipped they'll plug right in (the wiring's under the carpet). Grab the dash switches for the bun warmers. Ford used the same harness in all of the cars to save money so adding/deleting options is stupid easy.

DrBoost wrote: Hey Tommy. In my last thread you mentioned that you DD an E30. Can you tell me what the repair prices are like if you've had to do much to it?

If you find a solid one to begin with, replacement parts are very affordable. Except for ix and M3 parts (control arms for both are way expensive, awd parts on the ix are high, like $300 per control arm new vs $100 for normal E30).

I like my 318is Slicktop and like the little M42, great little engine. Although if you get one that needs timing chain work, all the parts alone will run north of $500 to do it right. Versus a 325 that needs a $40 belt kit and a water pump.

All four Brembo blanks and decent pads, $200. Huge network of guys selling good quality used parts. Blast to drive, easy to work on.

yadda yadda yadda

My quick answer is to consider the best Celica you can afford.
Comfy, sport-ish with all the reliability and most of the economy of a Corolla wrapped in a more interesting package with a useful hatchback. Though I habve never owned one it seems to be about the perfect commuter.

I did some commuting in my '88 MR2 (square body style). It was a great car for that. Mine was a SC version so mpg was not that good (but much of that was the driver's fault.) A NA version would be a great run-about. With that said, the SW20 was even a nicer car with a more civilized interior. Very interesting choice.

I did DD a '97 240sx and much of it was highway driving. I put over 100k miles on the car and it had 140K when I sold it. It was a solid GT touring car. Sportish and comfortable. Choose the automatic transmission like I did and it lowers the "drift tax" but even then good luck finding one that is not trashed and the owner still thinks it is a $5k car. The mpg was nothing great at 25-27mpg.

My favorite commuter was a '95 Civic EX coupe 5 speed that I bought in '98. Of course, now, see above abuse and replace with "rice tax."

Speaking against the grain here but I dont think that I would really want a P71. I think that coolness and attraction would wear off quick on me.

Outside ideas:
Infiniti G20 (classy Sentra)
Anything Acura. An old Legend Coupe would be cool but not easy to find.
The Maxima has not yet been mentioned but it really is a good compramise.

For purely ecomomy the '01 and '02 Chevy Prism is rated at 41mpg hyw. A big boost in mpg but a real drain in sporty-ness. Interestingly, the bowtie on the grill does satisfy your Buy American neighbors or customers.

I like my '95 Volvo 850 wagon with 5 speed and it has served me well over the past 50k miles (now at 150k.) Real MPG is 25-27 hyw

As of last month I am now trying the E30 route and so far it is good ('87 325is with 140k.) but I have only driven it about 1k miles. Real MPG is 24-27.

Play around on www.fueleconomy.gov to find some models that maybe you have not thought of.

Don't forget Escorts. Very reliable, good mileage and cheap to fix.