Anyone use Toyo R888s on the street?

I'm considering these in a 245/45/16, mostly street and some Solo1 and track days.

I have been using Kumho XS for street only and they have lasted 2 1/2 years (12-15,000 miles) so I'm thinking that I could replace the R888s in half that time? Two tires a year; rotate old to rear (fwd). What about the operating temps of 160+? I know this is pushing it so what do you think?

Subscribing, as this is one of the few tires left in this size, and i need this size as well.

My other concern is rain, as this car has to get me to work in summer.

They are deadly in the rain, wear awfully fast and not that grippy. You want full tread Ra-1 instead. I daily drove those for YEARS.

zachspeed wrote: They are deadly in the rain, wear awfully fast and not that grippy. You want full tread Ra-1 instead. I daily drove those for YEARS.

Yeah, they are taller and heavier so I have been trying not to think about them! I may go to Dunlop ZIIs in a 24" radius, 225/45s but that's a lot less tread. 16s are slowly going away.

Would you go RA1 over RE11? The price is pretty much identical. Would either last say.... 20k miles?

Hasbro wrote:

zachspeed wrote: They are deadly in the rain, wear awfully fast and not that grippy. You want full tread Ra-1 instead. I daily drove those for YEARS.

Yeah, they are taller and heavier so I have been trying not to think about them! I may go to Dunlop ZIIs in a 24" radius, 225/45s but that's a lot less tread. 16s are slowly going away.

245/45-16 RA1s are taller than 245/45-16 R888s?

Swank Force One wrote:

Hasbro wrote:

zachspeed wrote: They are deadly in the rain, wear awfully fast and not that grippy. You want full tread Ra-1 instead. I daily drove those for YEARS.

Yeah, they are taller and heavier so I have been trying not to think about them! I may go to Dunlop ZIIs in a 24" radius, 225/45s but that's a lot less tread. 16s are slowly going away.

245/45-16 RA1s are taller than 245/45-16 R888s? 24.7, as are the Bridgestone RE-11s. Not sure yet about the RE-11As. They are both 25 lbs. I'm trying to stay around 22-23 lbs. Splitting hairs.

I think i'm confused now.... you started the thread asking about 245/45-16 R888s, but seemed to pan the RA1s because they were taller and heavier.

Is this just because of the full tread thing? Both are available in the 245/45-16 size you specified, as is the RE-11.

zachspeed wrote: They are deadly in the rain, wear awfully fast and not that grippy. You want full tread Ra-1 instead. I daily drove those for YEARS.

I don't DD them, but they are on my track toy Miata that occasionally sees the street.

I don't know about "deadly" in the rain, my very first track day I ended up driving to the track in a topless Miata, doing 65 on the highway in the rain and I certainly didn't die. I had to drive fast enough to keep the water out of the inside of the car.

I'm starting to think when anyone on the internet says "XXXX" tire SUCKS in the rain it's because they expect a dry weather focused to tire to provide as much as grip and the same breakaway characteristics in the wet as they do in the dry.

That said, when its cool or the tires are cool, I can throw the back end out at will on a stock open diff 1.6 Miata. Once they have some temp built up, they stick pretty darn well.

But I've never driven on the RA1 or NT01

Swank Force One wrote: I think i'm confused now.... you started the thread asking about 245/45-16 R888s, but seemed to pan the RA1s because they were taller and heavier. Is this just because of the full tread thing? Both are available in the 245/45-16 size you specified, as is the RE-11.

The R888s are 24.4'. The RA1s are 24.7". I'm leaning more towards 24" than 25" due to gearing and a tight fit.

In reply to z31maniac:

Yeah, they said the Kumho XS was poor in the rain. I don't have any problems. I grew up on the Philly Main Line, land of ice and tiny narrow roads and now live in the desert so rain doesn't worry me. More of a reason to go out driving.

Hasbro wrote: In reply to z31maniac: Yeah, they said the Kumho XS was poor in the rain. I don't have any problems. I grew up on the Philly Main Line, land of ice and tiny narrow roads and now live in the desert so rain doesn't worry me. More of a reason to go out driving. Can you multi-quote on one post here?

Hasbro wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: I think i'm confused now.... you started the thread asking about 245/45-16 R888s, but seemed to pan the RA1s because they were taller and heavier. Is this just because of the full tread thing? Both are available in the 245/45-16 size you specified, as is the RE-11.

The R888s are 24.4'. The RA1s are 27". I'm leaning more towards 24" than 25" due to gearing and a tight fit.

Forgive me for sounding dense, but you're saying the height of these two tires in the same size differs by 2.5"?

Hasbro wrote: The R888s are 24.4'. The RA1s are 27". I'm leaning more towards 24" than 25" due to gearing and a tight fit.

I think you mean 24.7 for the RA1. Even if the advertised dimensions are spot on, you're talking ~.3 on the diameter. That's a mere ~.15 on the radius, where it matters most. This comes out to less than 10 revolutions per mile and less than 1mph difference at legal speeds. I highly doubt you'll be able to notice the difference. If it's that tight of a fit, I would generally think actual width vs advertised width and edge radius would be of greater concern.

In reply to Driven5: Yes, I meant 24.7. I probably wouldn't notice it but I would notice the extra 3 lbs. immediately.

I have an 04 Si and there isn't much suspension travel to play with. Going with a 24.4 diameter or even a 24 would lower the car without shortening the suspension travel. I had planned on going low and wide which would also require some flare work, which is a good thing. With my scheme there would be almost as much supension travel as stock, even with some coilover lowering.

I'm using a set on the 'vette because we couldn't get any other tires in the OEM size when I needed them. I also had them on a Miata and an Integra Type-R, both in the UK.

The Teg was eating them up at a scary rate (two trackdays at Brands Hatch and they weren't road legal anymore) but they worked well on the Miata. You have to be careful driving them in the rain and they simply do not work in cold weather (around 32F and colder) but otherwise I don't get the hate.

^Yikes! I've got three track days and another 400ish miles on the street on mine and they still have a few more days until they are at the wear bars, and that's still running less than -2° camber!

I forgot to add that the ones on the Miata lasted well (as to the ones on the Vette, but that one only sees the track through the fence). It was just the Teg that ate them up like nobody's business.

I ran them on my CRX and Miata for a time. NOT deadly in the rain, but you do have to be aware. Lightweight cars are easy on tires, so I can't comment on life span. I was happy with them though and would have bought more if I hadn't moved to a street tire class.

I've run them on my Miata (205/50/15), my E36 M3 (245/40/17), and my Elise (staggered 205/50/16, 225/40/17). They were adequate. But not much more than that. They wore much more quickly on my Miata than RA1s. I didn't find them too bad in the rain, but then I was always aware they didn't have much in the way of tread to evacuate the water. On the autox course, and the track they were adequate. Not brilliant.

Toyo offers a steep discount in Canada on the R888s. But, the model is just too compromised for all the applications I used it for. It wasn't stellar anywhere, and as a result I've moved on.

I found Star Specs to be a much better all around tire, and as quick in the autox as the R888s on both the Elise and the Miata. I am certain that the newest street tires are even faster.

I'd buy them if the price was right -- but most often there seems to be better choices out there.

The RA1 is one of the all-time great tires. Hard to get in Canada. But man I love RA1s.

For street tires, www.tires-easy.com has Nexen N3000 in that size for $99.

They have Toyo RA-1s and Bridgestone RE11s too.

This link to AIM Tire is probably the best I've ever seen in explaining differences in performance between the Toyo R888 and the rA1. Note what is said about use of R888 on FWD vs RWD cars - especially cars w/ non-strut suspensions. http://www.aimtire.com/typ_category.asp?Unique=41320.4135069444&ObjectID=6828

I know various people that use R888 and RA1 on the street. They work well all around. Pretty good in the rain also. They seem to have more grip than the Star Specs and they really like being run hard all the way to the cords.

amg_rx7 wrote: This link to AIM Tire is probably the best I've ever seen in explaining differences in performance between the Toyo R888 and the rA1. Note what is said about use of R888 on FWD vs RWD cars - especially cars w/ non-strut suspensions. http://www.aimtire.com/typ_category.asp?Unique=41320.4135069444&ObjectID=6828 I know various people that use R888 and RA1 on the street. They work well all around. Pretty good in the rain also. They seem to have more grip than the Star Specs and they really like being run hard all the way to the cords.

Thanks, good read. Explains a lot. This one, also; http://www.aimtire.com/typ_category.asp?Unique=41320%2E4229166667&ObjectID=6637

Thanks for everyone's input.

R888's a horrible tires. They wear quickly on the track, aren't that great in the rain and will absolutely suck for solo/auto-x. The RA1 is a better tire in all respects, but if you aren't going to shave it, you're much better off with a dedicated street tire like the Star Specs or the like.

come on now ... the R888 isn't the same as a RA1 ... that said it's not a horrible tire ... I set my personal best ( at CMP ) on some used R888's ... I've since equaled that time with a new set of Hankook Z214's .. I might ( probably) would go a bit quicker with a set of A6's ... but the 888 isn't all that bad, and it's a heck of a lot better in the rain than a set of shaved RA1's ( which is how most folk use the RA1's ) ... keep in mind that the wide grooves in the 888's stay in play even when the tire is worn to the wear bars